Trevor S 2,003 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 During a search of old Notts photographs on PTP, I came across this picture of Milton Street back in 1950. Try as I might, I cannot place the make or model of the car in the foreground. Can anybody assist in identifying the make of car, please? To magnify the image, move the cursor over picture. Image Ref: NTGM000945 Place: Nottingham Location: Milton Street Title: Milton Street Image Date: c 1950 Originator: not known Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bazza 71 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Looking at how boxy it appears I can only guess that it might be a Singer. Baz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S 2,003 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thanks Baz. Thought of the Singer and went through their cars of teh 50s but couldn't see anything. The front guards and wheel arches, together with the protruding headlights made me think it may have been a French breed. You know the ones I mean, the Citroen or Renault of WW2 with the stubby nose and engine in the back. Trouble is I do not think the roofline, doors and windows styling are French. Gave up in the end as I could not match it with anything. And what is that black area on the bonnet - bit big to be an air intake? The car just does not seem to fit in with the alleged date of the photograph - circa 1950 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Commo 1,292 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I have seen this photo' as well and the car threw me, and I wondered whether as it did not seem to be anything recognisabe, might have been some sort of Ford special, though they were not usually built up with a 4 seat body. I will also be most interested if anyone can throw more light on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loppylugs 8,429 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Looks a bit like Citroen to me? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Wrong door handles for a Citroen! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fch782c 144 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 To me the rear of the car appears to be an austin mini, I know around this era austin were playing around with the idea of incorperating Italian design I think the variation was called something like INNOCENTI. I may be mistaken but it is a possibility Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAVIDW 1,684 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 When I first saw the picture I thought of a Panhard PL17 but then searching on google images couldn't see anything that had that really angular windscreen . Maybe these are too curvy : https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=466&q=panhard&oq=panhard&gs_l=img.12..0l10.1935.4946.0.7332.7.6.0.1.1.0.172.563.0j4.4.0...0.0...1ac.1.8.img.YKd48-a1Jds#hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=panhard+pl17&oq=panhard+pl17&gs_l=img.12..0j0i24l3.25209.28360.0.30404.8.6.0.2.2.0.156.545.3j2.5.0...0.0...1c.1.8.img.skE0y3VJsi4&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.44770516,d.d2k&fp=28bb2ca3a32aa2c0&biw=1024&bih=466 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
littlebro 234 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 The car does appear as a hybrid with the front bodywork not really matching the rear. The headlamps appear as a Tatra-ish but the car is not a Tatra, the doors open wrong way and the Tatra had a 3-part front screen. The screen appears flat, probably earlier than 1950's. The grille in the bonnet today would be for a heater but in the 40's and 50's heaters were optional extras and would not have demanded a huge grille. This makes me wonder if the car is air-cooled? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff Ton 10,473 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Bearing in mind the photo is just post-war, I wonder if it was cobbled together from various parts by someone who couldn't get hold of anything better in the late 40s. An early kit car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Compo 10,328 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I would go with the kit-car theory. Front of a frog-eye sprite glued on to the rest of an A40 Farina? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S 2,003 Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I have contacted some car enthusiasts clubs over there in England and sought their help on this mystery car as well. Although they have promised to circulate the picture to their members, I have nothing to this point with the exception of one classic organisation suggesting that it could be any one of several one-off, prototypes built after the war. Here is the picture again, just in case someone is passing by and recognises it.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 Whos that in the front passenger seat? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAVIDW 1,684 Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 Looks a bit like Olive from On The Buses in the passenger seat . I asked on another message board and the nearest someone thought was a Tatra V570 front end . Though they don't have an air intake on top of the bonnet and as mentioned the door handles are in the wrong place . There is one model of Tatra shown below that has the right door handle position but the shape of the back end is wrong . https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=466&q=tatra+v570&oq=tatra+v570&gs_l=img.12..0.2372.9688.0.12014.10.8.0.2.2.0.125.780.7j1.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.8.img.fHOf8tZQ9vw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAVIDW 1,684 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Had another suggestion of some sort of Allard , a name I had forgotten about . http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=tablet-android-samsung&v=200400000&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=E8xjUcu7A4bM0AXX6oCYCQ&q=allard+saloon+p1&oq=allard+saloon+p1&gs_l=img.12...144637.146711.0.148207.3.3.0.0.0.0.204.390.2j0j1.3.0.ernk_ir..0.0...1.1.8.img.oz6EIPUNxdY&biw=1280&bih=800&sei=rMxjUZnQJZCr0AW7iIGYDQ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notty ash 371 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I was thinking Allard too, but can't find a suitable model. It does have a lot in common with the Safari 1952-1954 model seen here (from http://www.cartype.com/pages/290/allard_brochures) but the rear roofline of the car in the Nottingham photo is not long enough to be an estate car. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Also, the Allards all have separate bonnet and wings - the car in the picture does not, or they are not as distinct. The geometry between the bonnet line and the lower edge of the door windows also seems odd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DAVIDW 1,684 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 When you magnify the image it looks like wing mirrors have been removed and the holes replaced with plugs . There looks like a clip on mirror on the door frame .? Also seems to be a small round emblem on the bonnet between the headlamps . Not that this helps much . Also what colour is it ? Grey ? But the sun and wrong exposure makes it look white on top ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NewBasfordlad 3,599 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Forerunner of Herbie from love bug? Colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notty ash 371 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Also, the Allards all have separate bonnet and wings - the car in the picture does not, or they are not as distinct. The geometry between the bonnet line and the lower edge of the door windows also seems odd. Agreed it is not too obvious, but there is a definite hint of the bonnet and wings being separate. It is just a shame the sun was so strong and washed out a lot of the detail. If you look in my compilation below, I show the original photo in the middle, with a shadow ringed in white hinting at the line of the bonnet. Above it is a mirror image of the estate car I showed earlier, with the headlights moved to roughly where the ones on the Nottingham photo are. At the bottom is the earlier (1950ish) Allard windscreen. These earlier Allards had a very bulbous waistline too which is evident in the Nottingham photo. To my uneducated eyes it does look a bit like a combination of Allard features from different models - maybe a prototype, or a kit car lookalike? I know cars from the 1950s moderately well and can't think of anything else remotely similar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
notty ash 371 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 This site is very useful for cars available in particular years and photos of them. http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/car_spotters_guide_europe_1950.htm Just change the year in the box near the top to see other years Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Limey 242 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Got it - and, I agree, it could be an Allard! The light certainly causes problems! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 There is a similar car Quest at the end of this old topic http://nottstalgia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6311 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trevor S 2,003 Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 PTP forwarded me an enlarged copy of the photograph of the car but unfortunately because of its size, I am unable to download it to this site. I will send it to you, M2M, and you may be able to put it on this thread. However, in the photo, the objects on the top of each wing look more like the old style sidelights. The photo does not show the rear of the vehicle and so we are unable to determine whether it is 2 or 4 door but, we can see the roof line at the rear and it would suggest a compact sedan; especially with what appears to be the rear wheel arch visible below the rear side window. The door handle is intriguing as it is to the rear of the door and has a recess under the handle. The light is a problem with this photo but the enlarged version would strongly suggest that the roof is fabric and the vehicle is in fact a 'soft top'. This theory is further strengthened by the fittings (flaps) at the top of the side windows although I cannot explain the centre pillars. I also cannot explain the vertical corrugation in the body work immediately in front of the passenger door I looked at the Allard but discounted it due to the apparent shortness of the mystery vehicles bonnet, particularly when compared with the size of the car, the occupants and outside measuring mediums. It is IMHO a small car. I was tending towards a French or German vehicle that you always saw in the early war movies but do you think I can find one now??? No way. Hopefully M2M can put the enlarged photo by PTP on this site and we may be able to solve the puzzle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mick2me 3,033 Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Send me the email, it may be that site hosting is better than remote? Also we might be able to get more detail with Photoshop, Cliff ton being the expert in this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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