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Isolation- Information and advice

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21 hours ago, Brew said:

Actually Col I said you came across as someone on the verge of panic - and you did.

 

Brew, I said 'assorted people' and was not solely aiming my comment at you.  You said what you said and I disagree with what you said, but I know from what you have written that you realise we are in a serious situation.  Others didn't, maybe some still don't.

 

I wasn't panicking, or on the verge of panic. I wasn't panicking then and I'm not panicking now.  I am howver annoyed that people are still being stupid beyond belief.

 

21 hours ago, Brew said:

Are you now saying we should all panic and if so how will it be of any benefit?

 

I am not saying we should panic and I have never said we should panic so your supplementary question does not apply.

 

21 hours ago, Brew said:

I realise it is incumbent on you as a die-hard socialist to castigate and denigrate the government's efforts and that's  fine but do you have any  suggestions as to what action you think they should have taken that: (etc)

 

Once again.  I am not a 'die hard socialist'.  I am a Social Democrat.  I remain of the opinion that the Govt has been too slow to react.  Anyone with any intelligence could see at least a month ago what was happening and which way things were going.  The first tangible response to the virus from Govt was a budget aimed almost completely at securing the position of 'big business'.  In subsequent days the Govt. has worked 'downwards' to finally make provision.. of a sort.. for the poorest and weakest in society.  Of course we need to protect 'the economy', but we need to protect it for the benefit of the majority.  The minority super rich will always be OK.

 

So, I make no apology for asserting that from an economic perspective the Govt response has been arse about face.

 

Secondly, as I recall the first attempts to 'manage' the outbreak consisted of telling the vulnerable to protect themselves and assuming that the behaviour of the rest would 'flatten the curve'.  As I recall that lasted less than a week, before it was pointed out that this just would not work.

 

Only today the Govt. finally admitted that the NHS which is already weak because of deliberate Tory Govt policy and underfunding, did not have sufficient Personal Protective Equipment for front line staff and that 'millions of masks have now been ordered'.  Ordered?  They've had AT LEAST  two months to act and only now are they getting around to it!  Criminal negligence in my view.

 

21 hours ago, Brew said:

Talking to friends and neighbours most seem to think Boris is doing his best Churchill impression and is performing as well as can be expected. Most fail to see what more he could do that will not wreck the economy further.

 

As for 'Churchill Impressions'.  I believe it was old Bill Shakespeare who said: 

Quote

"Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them."

 

Definitely 'thrust upon' so far for old Boris.  This is definitely not what he signed up for.  He's well out of his depth but at least I imagine he's enjoying the attention and.. to his credit.. he is carefully laying off all of his bets onto 'the science'....

 ....eventually..

 

It is obvious that the economy is already wrecked, but we are no worse off in that respect than any other country, so we'll all maybe have to act like Grown Ups when the dust settles.  Don't worry, just like the 2008 crash. when the bill finally lands it won't be the rich who pay it. It never is.

The priority now must be to fight the virus by all possible means.  If we don't fight the virus and win, then the economy is and always will be worth 'diddly squat'.

 

21 hours ago, Brew said:

I think he is a little naïve to rely on the good sense of the public and may yet need to introduce sterner measures. From what we saw at Matlock people need a clear and present danger before they react. At present few can see or refuse to see the seriousness of the threat.

 

 

Which is exactly what I was saying above.

I'd say 'a little naive' is an understatement and finally tonight he has taken action.  I and many I know have been doing our best to protect ourselves for weeks in the knowledge that far too many couldn't care less.  What you saw in Matlock, what I saw in my own street, what many saw on TV over the weekend ought to finally get across that people must STAY AT HOME and possibly more important MUST NOT ASSEMBLE IN GROUPS.

 

So.. no.. I'm not panicking and have not been panicking at any point.  I have been trying to act sensibly for my own protection, and I've been trying to get people to see what is obvious to any who will look.

I've not been panicking, but I have been worried.  I'm still worried and I'm really not enjoying having my natural tendency to anxiety constantly provoked by brainless idiots who still do not understand what they have been told for weeks.

 

Last night's announcements from Boris may have been worrying for many.  That pleases me.. because people may finally wake up to reality.

As for me, I feel ever so slightly reassured that Govt. might finally be doing something worthwhile.

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May I put in my twopennerth. I didn't think DJ has been panicking , it didn't come across like that to me at all. You may all say I have been panicking because I'm saying more or less what he's saying. 

The truth is we are all scared, don't say you're not because I won't believe you. We are all worried sick and get so frustrated when we don't think things are being done as we think they should be done. When this virus started  in China we didn't think for an instant that it would reach here so quickly. We could have done a lot more if we had taken it more seriously but we didn't . It was so frustrating to lthink what they could do to slow, down the virus and not being able to do it.

Now I think we have done what we need to do but still the government is looking at more ways to stop contact with others.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO.?

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Thing is, who created it? or who released it? Was it some scheme that backfired, that's what I'd like to know. 

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My partner has done some shopping today - Lidl at Clifton. Guy on the door making customers queue at a distance, and letting them in when some come out. Maximum of 20 inside at any one time. They have obviously taken their lead from HQ at Neckarsulm. Lets hope the big boys follow suit.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Beekay said:

Thing is, who created it? or who released it? Was it some scheme that backfired, that's what I'd like to know. 

We will probably never know, but my guess is that the scientific community will expend much effort and money to conclude that,  possibly, the establishment near Wuhan accidentally released a virus. This then found its way into the local wildlife. Then, because of the Chinese preoccupation with strange animals for food and medicine, this jumped from normally discrete species (ie; they do not associate) into the human food chain.

I also notice that the Chinese, via disinformation and their own version of whispers, are starting to cover their backsides. They would have us believe that the US dumped a "weaponised" virus on them, or that cases appeared in Italy prior to their own.

I for one hope that, when this is all over, we all rethink the way we buy stuff, and where from.

The virus has reminded me of the real cost of saving a few quid on my stuff.

 

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28 minutes ago, nonnaB said:

WHAT WOULD YOU DO.?

 

Hmm good question. 

 

Ground all non military aircraft

Stop all inter city trains

Close ALL businesses not essential

Close all underground stations

Close motorways to all except emergency and utility services. Goods vehicles with essential supplies would also be allowed

No exercising, going without for three weeks won't hurt you

Food shopping done online, phones if you don't have internet, social services for those who fall outside the net.

Meds delivered to door, no collecting from chemist

Introduce a curfew

I see no good reason for Halfords to stay open nor any good reason for Home Bargains, Holland and Barret etc to be open

There's more...

 

Lockdown means just that, not a half hearted mishmash that may or may not have an effect over time. The tighter the control the more likely we can reduce the period where we need to live like hermits.

We are an island and that alone gives us an advantage over those across the channel so absolutely no passage through the tunnel or on ferries unless it's food imports. Any containers etc with non essential imports can stay where they are, they will still be there when it's over.

 

Draconian? yup sure is...

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Brew that's mostly what's been done here. ALL BUSINESSES ARE CLOSED AND NOT ALLOWED TO WORK.Dont know about chemists delivering but we are a small village with 2 chemists and we collect. Only 2 in at a time. Food shopping once a week. Absolutely no exercises , jogging or walking around just for the sake of it. If you're not in the vicinity of your home...tough, you  pay. Carabinieri have the right to break up groups and anyone not doing so will be punished perhaps imprisoned. And government say " more restrictions to come "

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Who's calling the kettle black. There are so many accusations coming out but it'll take a while perhaps never to find the exact cause.

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If oldphil is right,and to be honest, I have similar thoughts, who is going to make them pay for this catastrophe?. And again, when and if it gets 'sorted ' , i can see this escalating to something a lot worse, and I don't mean virus wise!!!

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

 

 

Food shopping done online, phones if you don't have internet, social services for those who fall outside the net.

Meds delivered to door, no collecting from chemist

Introduce a curfew

I see no good reason for Halfords to stay open nor any good reason for Home Bargains, Holland and Barret etc to be open

 

 

 

 We received our Tesco order yesterday and got most of what we wanted about £56 worth . Went on line to do an order for the future and no slots available up to April the 13th.....no option for booking later .

 

Yesterday wife phoned chemist to check if her meds were ready to be picked up . "Yes it's all ready" . I went to pick up and was 10th in queue outside on the pavement , they are only letting one in at a time .

My turn came and I said is her insulin in there ....."Oh no just the blood monitor testers" . Frantic scrambling through various trays with prescriptions ." Found it , it will be 20 minutes.....you'll have to wait outside" ...

45 minutes later they called me in and handed it over . 4 small boxes about the size of a packet of paracetamol !

All together I was outside the chemist for about an hour and a half ,standing with others , definitely not 2 metres apart .  Luckily it was sunny !

When my wife had phoned the chemist earlier and asked if they did a delivery service she was told  in no uncertain terms that they didn't .

 

Getting back to the queuing at the chemist , the only ones it didn't apply to were the druggies who went straight to the counter and were issued their meds in a little cup that they drink on the spot . One guy  , I swear , would have eaten the cup if he could have gotten another drop out of it . (It took the pharmacist away from her job but on the other hand I wouldn't want them breathing down my neck at the back of the queue outside)

 

My car was due to have an MOT today at my regular garage but at 9.30pm last night , after Boris announcement , the owner rang me to say that due to staff health worries he wouldn't be opening for the foreseeable future ,  he thought the Gov may bring in a 3 month extension to cars existing MOTs , like they have on HGVs ......so far they haven't and garages are still allowed to stay open which is I guess how Halfords are allowed , as many of them have workshops . 

Earliest MOT I could get with another garage was April 2nd but even he wasn't sure if he would be open then .

 

Re Holland and Barrett , my daughter in law did an order for pulses , flour and lots of dried food with them yesterday .

Home Bargains carry quite a substantial range of food so  guess they have a reason to be open . Similarily  Poundland are open , though the one I went into today had more staff than customers .

 

I would have thought the likes of B&Q should have been closed , I know its handy whilst workers are off to do a bit of decorating but its hardly a necessity .

 

 

 

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This is only hypothetical.

 

I appreciate it's difficult arranging a home delivery however nothing says you can't order from multiple sources.  Timed deliveries would end, they're too restrictive and customer are not going to be out so will not miss the delivery. 

 

Homebargains/ Poundland would be like any other food shop - closed and delivery of food only.

 

Shops, like your chemist, who do not offer deliveries would be made to do so, or close. No vans? with the travel restrictions in place there will be hundreds of taxis doing nothing.

 

Hard line here on your MOT mate. Unless you are an essential and need it for work why do you need a car? Remember under my scenario you would not be going anywhere so garages, including Halfords and Kwik Fit etc would be closed

 

My point is it has to be hard line, there would be no choice. People have shown they will not follow advice and much as I am loathe to say it they would have to be forced into compliance

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Tried Morrisons.....no delivery slots either but I agree , home deliveries would be the answer if available in a reasonable time .  Would be a tall order though for ALDI or LIDL  to get an organised trading website plus delivery fleet , up and running within a few weeks .

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, oldphil said:

This then found its way into the local wildlife. Then, because of the Chinese preoccupation with strange animals for food and medicine, this jumped from normally discrete species (ie; they do not associate) into the human food chain.

 

I don't believe the Chinese created a weaponised virus at all. If they did it would not need an animal intermediary and would go straight for the target. The accidental release into the wild of an experimental virus I can believe. The Americans releasing one? nah not even Trump is that stupid. It's rubbish beside the fact they would have a vaccine for their own people, if it was true, before they released it.

 

The Italian story I don't know, it's so new no one recognised it for quite some time so it may well have been around for a lot longer than we know about.

 

What I wonder about is why are Italy and Iran suffering more than others? What is it with those two countries that is different to the rest of the world and makes them more susceptible? 

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4 minutes ago, DAVIDW said:

Would be a tall order though for ALDI or LIDL  to get an organised trading website plus delivery fleet , up and running within a few weeks .

 

Actually I don't think so. They already have online sales of 'special buys' so extending to the rest of the products is not that difficult. No need for a delivery fleet simply forward orders to the local shop and they organise delivery. Each shop will not need to serve customers so will have plenty of space and staff for order assembly, become a small warehouse in effect...

 

 

 

Sitting here, under Manchester flight, path two planes have just passed overhead so some airlines are still going...

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There are still some flights bringing / taking people back home.

 

Except the people trapped in Australia from the U.K as no stop off Countries in between are allowing non nationals to land.

 

OOps just googled and Qantas are going to do a few non stop Darwin to London flights over the next few days in an Airbus 380.

Starting in Sydney but refuelling in Darwin, first time it's been attempted commercially.

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1 hour ago, Brew said:

 

 

The Italian story I don't know, it's so new no one recognised it for quite some time so it may well have been around for a lot longer than we know about.

 

What I wonder about is why are Italy and Iran suffering more than others? What is it with those two countries that is different to the rest of the world and makes them more susceptible? 

Italy has a high rate of flu every year so they weren't unduly concerned about it, only worried that it was a lot of cases. When this CV arrived brought in by a Chinese couple on holiday they started to think it could be dangerous. This was if I remember at the end of January. 

Dont know why Italy and Iran are more susceptible, I can only guess for Italy. Around Christmas and new year the Italians visit relatives and travel around , the north to the south and the south to the north. They are a very close , " family" hugs and kisses are the norm for greetings and they congregate a large groups especially if they have large families. We had 2 cases in Turin, visitors there travelled home to Milan , Brescia and Bergamo and the rest is history. 

Today we were told people not abiding by the new rules would be fined not €400 but € 3000. That's an incentive to stay at home don't you think. 

Anyway whichever way we look at it , mixing with people spreads disease. 

Good luck everyone and stay at home and be safe.

Our motto is " Resta a casa, tutto va bene " ( stay at home everything will be alright.)

Lets hope so.

we aren't the only ones with high rate of cases and deaths , Spain is catching up and USA is coming along too. Remember other countries are quite a few weeks behind us so the end story might be quite different

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2 hours ago, Stuart.C said:

There are still some flights bringing / taking people back home.

 

Our boys have a massive problem as they are a small but global construction company and have contracts all over the World.  They’ve managed to get most of the men home but still have a Brit stuck in Panama, an Indonesian stuck in Cuba, 2 Jamaicans stuck in the Bahamas and a dozen Brits in the Falklands (although they are due back here on Friday on a military plane hopefully.)  It’s a real headache for our lads. 
Our neighbours are on the Australian Gold Coast unable to get home and a friend’s ‘gap-yearing’ son is stuck in NZ. 
 

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5 hours ago, Brew said:

Hard line here on your MOT mate. Unless you are an essential and need it for work why do you need a car? Remember under my scenario you would not be going anywhere so garages, including Halfords and Kwik Fit etc would be closed

 

It's a difficult one as I have a perfect storm of both our cars needing MOT very soon.  I'd like to keep one legal so as to avoid the necessity for public transport of any kind should an unavoidable journey crop up.  (I stiil have two 'grumbling' teeth for e.g.)

 

Bear in mind I've not been within 6 feet of anyone, or inside any other building but my house, since 6th March.  I think I 'get' social distancing.

 

My car is due an MOT. 26th April and Tax 1st May.

I will need a new tyre before that.

It seems that 'garages' are still allowed to open. I already spoke to a local tyre fitters yesterday. They understood my predicament. (Age/Health) and agreed that the best way in principle would be for me to take just the wheel to them.. in wife's car. Stay clear while they fit tyre, then pay by phone debit and bring wheel home.

However, my latest thinking is wait till 27th March, drive my car there by appointment and get tyre and MOT all done while I stay out of their way. Ask them to leave car with all windows open after done. Give car a good while to 'ventilate' then drive it home and clean all controls etc, touched by MOT staff.
That way I'd be able to tax it and keep one vehicle running for emergencies/food shopping. We can always SORN Mrs Mull's 'shed'.

Or I could just forget driving for the duration.. but that might put us at risk on public transport if we HAD to go somewhere.

Hard call.

 

On the other hand.. if Govt give an MOT amnesty for a few months the problem is solved.

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9 hours ago, Beekay said:

Thing is, who created it? or who released it? Was it some scheme that backfired, that's what I'd like to know. 

 

 

I'd agree with Brew that it is conceivable that something 'escaped' from some facility.  That might, for instance explain the rather odd response by the Chinese Authorities to the 'whistle blowing' of the poor Opthalmologist who died.

 

Favourite for me though is the 'species jumping' which is known to occur when species which normally wouldn't be in close proximity, are crowded together in 'wet' markets.  I believe this was identified as the cause of SARS, whereas MERS has been traced to Camels.

 

9 hours ago, Brew said:

Meds delivered to door, no collecting from chemist

 

I've not enquired of my local pharmacy yet and my next repeat is not due for a week or so.  It occurs to me that having a succession of people following each other into a smallish space is not good for either the individual or the staff, as any virus exhaled will hang about for at least a few minutes inside.

I think it might be better if people identified themselves at the door and staff brought out the prescriptions and placed them into a basket outside the door.

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I see your predicament Col but in extremis call a taxi?  No crowd, no queue and quicker. 

 

We have a different problem. The lease on the Fiesta is up end of this month and the car showroom has closed for the duration. The plan was for a new car but that's not going to happen now and phones are not being answered it seems...

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1 minute ago, DJ360 said:

II've not enquired of my local pharmacy yet and my next repeat is not due for a week or so.  It occurs to me that having a succession of people following each other into a smallish space is not good for either the individual or the staff, as any virus exhaled will hang about for at least a few minutes inside.

I think it might be better if people identified themselves at the door and staff brought out the prescriptions and placed them into a basket outside the door.

 

That's what I meant by wooly and ill thought out, there are just too many holes in the SD idea. Tubes still running, trains still running the Channel Tunnel is still open!

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2 minutes ago, Brew said:

I see your predicament Col but in extremis call a taxi?  No crowd, no queue and quicker. 

 

 

So long as the Taxi Driver or his previous passenger is CV free..

 

4 minutes ago, Brew said:

. The lease on the Fiesta is up end of this month and the car showroom has closed for the duration. The plan was for a new car but that's not going to happen now and phones are not being answered it seems...

 

I don't know much about leasing, but I imagine you need to write to/email them saying that you will continue using the vehicle unless THEY make other arrangements or issue other instructions?

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5 hours ago, Brew said:

Sitting here, under Manchester flight, path two planes have just passed overhead so some airlines are still going...

 

Not exactly a lock down....

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/27.66,-59.88/2

 

To be fair.... many flights are freight if you check, but at least one is passenger Milan-Southend. 

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34 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

I've not enquired of my local pharmacy

 

If they don't maybe these will...

 

https://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/prescriptions/electronic-prescription-service-nhs

 

May be of use to you and it's free...

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Yep, thanks.  I was aware of this.  I'm not sure how it works and what relationship it has with Govt./NHS.  Also, I've known my local pharmacist for 40+ years.  She is very good.  She knows my meds and conditions and we have other associations with her and her late husband's family.  Not something you let go easily.

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