Ukraine invasion...

[DJ360 6,730]

26 minutes ago, Brew said:

That 'famous convoy' is firmly inside Russian territory.

 

Eh?  It's between Kyiv and the border with Belarus, something like 17 Km outside the city, so even if it is 40m long, all of it is in Ukraine.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-40-mile-russian-military-convoy-nearing-kyiv-satellite-pictures-show-12554623

[Brew 5,417]

Apologies, Russian controlled territory.

[DJ360 6,730]

Exactly.. and pretty much a 'sitting duck'..which has me wondering.

 

At first I assumed that the Russians had 'neutralised' all or much of the Ukrainian Air Force in the first couple of days.. but latest I'm getting is that they still have a lot of viable  aircraft.  Which of course begs the question.. why are they not using them?

The Ukrainian forces are not stupid..so there'll be a reason..but I don't see it.

Are they drawing Russia in?

Of course they would eventually lose.. but if they can give Putin a bloody nose and enough difficult to explain body bags..

[nonnaB 4,895]

A story of desparation and courage. Last night a telephone call to my brother in law who lives in France. His daughter was visiting and she was telling us about her brother in law. 

He works for one of the big banks in Moscow. He decided to withdraw everything in his account and take a taxi along with his wife, children, 2 dogs, a rabbit and a hamster out of the country. They spent 10 hours in the taxi travelling from Moscow to Poland. They walked and eventually were able to get a car which took them to an airport where his family could board a plane to Marsaille. He remained as he couldnt get a flight but is travelling by car so he can get across to France. They are in constant contact with their families by Whattsapp. He is travelling with the animals. 

I wish them all the best of luck.

I know there is no war in Russia but fortunately he had an idea what was going to happen. He left without saying anything to anyone not even his family until they were on their way.

[IAN FINN 808]

Good Luck to everyone nonna all of this invasion and fighting is unnecessary didn't anyone one learn from WW2.

[Rob.L 1,090]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:49 PM, DJ360 said:

Exactly.. and pretty much a 'sitting duck'..which has me wondering.

 

At first I assumed that the Russians had 'neutralised' all or much of the Ukrainian Air Force in the first couple of days.. but latest I'm getting is that they still have a lot of viable  aircraft.  Which of course begs the question.. why are they not using them?

The Ukrainian forces are not stupid..so there'll be a reason..but I don't see it.

Are they drawing Russia in?

Of course they would eventually lose.. but if they can give Putin a bloody nose and enough difficult to explain body bags..

Perhaps the Ukrainians are saving most of their aircraft in case Putin sends in the bombers, having exhausted most of his ground offences? 
 

There is some credible thought amongst those who know these things that the Russians are losing more and more tanks, heavy weapons, and support vehicles. What breaks down also seems to be getting nicked by farmers with tractors.
 

The famous 40km convoy hasn’t moved in days and the consensus is that they’ve run out of fuel, thanks to the Ukrainians targeting fuel trucks. There’s also a video on YouTube showing a train full of civilian trucks and vans on their way to the front line.

 

And as for the body bags, the Russians actually have mobile crematoriums to hide the truth from the folks back home.

[MRS B 520]

As much as I would want the Ukraine to win in this, I can’t logically see it happening. The fire power of Russia is too much, they’re biding their time.

 

Mrs B

[Brew 5,417]

A convoy 40miles long is sheer stupidity in hostile territory, even though they are in control, or claim to be. The logistics of getting fuel to them and then actually refuelling the trucks is a major problem.

Guessing at an average truck space of 20 to 30 meters, there must be getting on for 2000 trucks needing 1000 litres of fuel each.

Then they have crew who need food and shelter. 

 

It's a sign of the confidence the Russians had of a swift result that they put all their trucks in one convoy. Maybe they thought they could rock up and park a couple of tanks in the main square and it would all be over, allowing the convoy to proceed unhindered.

In a country the size of Ukraine, multiple spearheads would make more sense and be more manageable. Then again I'm not Russian, have no military training, so what do I know?

[DJ360 6,730]

As Jim says, The first casualty of war is truth...so we have to take most things with a pinch of salt ....but.

I'm wondering if the convoy North of Kiev is a feint. After all Kiev is not necessarily a strategic target and I doubt Putin wants to destroy it as he'll need it to lend some sort of legitimacy to any puppet govt he manages to install.

On the other hand Putin is making progress in the South, which is I suppose much more strategically significant, giving access to the sea and denying Ukraine the same.

As for his army. It's apparent they all thought they were on exercises  and lying to your own troops in that way isn't a great way to inspire confidence commitment or loyalty.   It is rumoured that the reason Putin is losing commanders is because he's having to send them forward to motivate demoralised troops  He's no doubt also using his assorted paramilitary thugs such as his Wagner Group who are basically Nazis, to 'encourage' his troops. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see Russians surrendering en masse, or even in some cases joining the Ukrainians.

It's well known that Turkey has supplied Ukraine with some well regarded drones, but less known that Ukraine has its own drone which can evade radar and deliver a 3kg payload ....which  is certainly enough to spoil your day. They even apparently send a smaller drone alongside it to verify the target and both are re-useable.

It's not over yet.

 

[DJ360 6,730]

This is interesting:

 

https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/67331.html

[colly0410 1,181]

A lot of people I've spoken to think we should declare a no fly zone over Ukraine. But if we did that then sooner or later a Russian plane would get shot down by a NATO plane, then Putin would claim Russia is the victim of NATO aggression & that'd be his excuse to lob a few nukes about & all hell would then break out. Thing is he's unhinged so normal rules don't apply. What the solution to this problem is I have no clue...

[Rob.L 1,090]

It’s understandable that NATO can’t do anything without provoking a full scale war, but as the civilian situation gets worse, perhaps the UN should step up. It would need the veto removing from Russia (and probably China) to get beyond the Security Council but if aircraft can fly under the UN flag, would Putain (to use his French nickname) take on UN forces?

[Brew 5,417]

The nuclear deterrent is doing its job. The fear of starting  a nuclear holocaust is holding every one in check, plus many in the EU have only a token force, including the UK. The government and those before, have steadily reduced our forces on the strength of no discernable threat. The folly of this is becoming apparent.

 

! ***************************** (deleted  long diatribe about the government and military reductions).

[DJ360 6,730]

Seems I was wrong about the 40 mile Convoy. It seems that the Russians use Chinese made tyres which are sh++e and that the Ukrainians have simply opened up sluice gates in that area to flood the fields/roads and extend the 'mud season'.

 

Also interesting to read that the Germans have opened up warehouses left over from the days of the GDR and are shipping lots of  Russian made anti aircraft missiles into Ukraine.  Oh! the irony.

 

Of course it looks like the Russians, despite their woeful organisation and untrained children in uniform, do have more heavy artillery, which they are employing indiscriminately.  

 

I really wish I could employ the language I'd like to employ to describe Putin. Whenever he is seen in conference with men, he sits yards away from them..like the coward he is.  He knows he is marked.  Yet when..for some bizarre reason, he decided to put out a ludicrous propaganda broadcast featuring himself and a bevy of female Flight Attendants,  they surrounded him  in close company..all looking at least serious..and some terrified.  What a piece of shit he is.

 

Meanwhile,  on the topic of Refugees, Priti Patel is still lying through her teeth and Johnson is still making wibbling noises. ( "We will do all that we can do")  Define that Johnson.. you creep.

 

As for UK defence spending. Jim.  I may be a Democratic Socialist,  and naturally anti-militarism.. but I believe that while the likes of Putin still roam free..we need a sound defence system. 

Of course the Tories are hampered on three fronts concerning this. 

1. They will risk the collapse of any Govt. function in order to reduce taxes for their mates, so that spending cuts are genetically programmed in. 

2. They are incompetent, and prove it daily.

3. They are in the same schoolyard gang as the Russian Oligarchs that have been fundng them for years... which is why they could introduce Covid Legislation in days, but have been trying Oh..so hard to overcome legal obstacles to freezing Russian assets..for at least 10 years and no doubt longer...

You have to feel for the poor chaps...

[Brew 5,417]

1 hour ago, DJ360 said:

Also interesting to read that the Germans have opened up warehouses left over from the days of the GDR and are shipping lots of  Russian made anti aircraft missiles into Ukraine.  Oh! the irony.

True, however we should not forget that Germany, at first request from Ukraine for arms, rebuffed them and sent helmets instead. The excuse was that sending arms to crisis areas was likely to 'inflame the situation'.

This despite having sold record amounts of arms in 2021.

Perhaps the USA, Estonia and the UK leading the way in donating military hardware shamed them into doing a U turn.

 

How effective old Russian armaments from the GDR will be after all this time is hard to say, but at least they've now got nice empty warehouses and no longe need to worry about disposing of the contents.

[nonnaB 4,895]

Ukraini Refugees into UK? Apparently not, Is Boris really doing all he can? Brexit is to blame for lots of things but this is really rubbing salt into the wounds of the Ukraini. Maybe it is something to do with visa but they are fleeing for their lives. What happened to the motto, nearest port in a storm? This is a hell of a storm and please a bit of humanity. Europe is taking as many and as quickly as they can, even vaccinating them as they arrive. Dont know if you get news and videos of Italian reporters? Most are near to tears along with these people. 

Whats wrong? They ( Ukraini) are human beings, they have 2 legs, 2 arms in fact they are just like us but speak a different language. We have a few Russians who live in the village, they live quietly and are welcomed by all. 

My brother in law is awaiting for a Ukrainian family and is willing to fetch them either in a central point or even to Polish border. 

Is Boris trying to be re elected by getting UK to forgive him for all his blunders. 

[DJ360 6,730]

Nonna,

I try not to call him Boris, it's almost a term of endearment for some. Johnson is a morality free zone whose only interest is himself.  He's also a congenital liar who dribbles out whatever comes into his head at the time. It really is that simple. This was spotted by his teachers decades ago and half of his family don't speak to him.

[DAVIDW 1,683]

I read that Putin is following the writings of an Alexandr Dugin and his book Foundations of Geopolitics. 

 

Part of the plan in the book has been achieved ,Britain being "cut off from Europe". 

 

Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as a state has no geopolitical meaning" , which is what Putin was spouting at the beginning of the invasion.

 

Finland could be the next target for him .

 

Iran is " key ally"

 

More here if you go to "content" to show Dugin's ideas for the various countries and their relationship to Russia.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

[MargieH 7,600]

That link was really interesting - thank you.  Russia + Iran + Turkey and some others …. All they need to do then is March  on Israel and Armageddon will be here.  

[DJ360 6,730]

Well that load of fascist bull may explain Putin's actions, but it is no recipe for a peaceful stable world, or for the freedom which most of us crave.  The ravings of a lunatic.

 

Dugin..whoever he is..is deluded as much about Russia's history as he is about the 'destiny' he claims for it.  Straight out of the Hitler playbook.

And of course nowhere in that is there any mention of any benefits for the World, for nations of for individuals.  Pure megalomaniacal fantasy.

 

It certainly looks like Putin has got part way along the timeline though, which just increses my conviction that he has to be stopped.  Now.

[DJ360 6,730]

27 minutes ago, MargieH said:

That link was really interesting - thank you.  Russia + Iran + Turkey and some others …. All they need to do then is March  on Israel and Armageddon will be here.  

 

Not sure the word 'interesting' is quite it though Margie.

[Rob.L 1,090]

I read a quote the other day that there are already 125,000 Russian soldiers in Finland who have been there since the attempted invasion in 1939. They’re all six feet under the ground.

 

Its worth reading up on this conflict, as there seem to be some striking parallels with the current war, especially around the tactics employed.

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/finlands-winter-war-with-the-soviet-union/30280490.html

[DJ360 6,730]

17 hours ago, DAVIDW said:

I read that Putin is following the writings of an Alexandr Dugin and his book Foundations of Geopolitics. 

 

Hi David, that was certainly a very interesting article and quite worrying, if indeed Putin and Co. are really so driven to implement Dugin's Hitleresque fantasies.  I posted it into the Pinkfishmedia discussion on Ukraine, where it also created a few ripples.  However it was countered in part by this view of Dugin, which basically says his influence has been ovrestimated by 'the West':

 

https://providencemag.com/2019/07/west-overestimates-aleksandr-dugins-influence-russia/

 

Which moved me to respond with this:

 

"Well, in many ways that is re-assuring, but I think it might be a bit premature to 'diss' Dugin entirely, for these reasons:

-Just as many here dismiss Farage as a chain smoking beer swilling self interested s**t stirrer, many will have been at least partially influenced by his views on the EU, immigration etc. Brexit happened.

-While many here even on the Tory side know full well that Johnson is a pathological liar and self interested incompetent, they still prefer his administration to any other administration they have been taught (by the media) to imagine.

And the above is more transparent than the nefarious activities of the likes of Bannon and co..of whom the bulk of the UK voting public are blissfully unaware.

So.. what I'm saying is that even the 'fringe' operators have an effect on the zeitgeist, and while Russia's elite might not buy into Dugin's particular brand of lunacy, it does them no harm if such nationalistic ideology is propagated within the general Russian population..as a counter to 'western/democratic' ideology."

 

[DJ360 6,730]

Also in the background to Ukraine, this article fleshes out the role of Johnson and the Tories as, at best naive and at worst treasonous in their actions and associations.

I've put this here as it is directly relevant to the discussion on the illegal invasion of Ukraine, and yet again points out the compromised position of the UK Govt/Tory party, but if it is considered 'too political', then Kev, by all means move it into the Politics thread.

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/03/08/white-flag-boris-johnson-and-the-appeasement-of-vladimir-putin/

[Alpha 176]

Is it surprising that Russia has invaded a lesser armed country. When Stalin died, his Soviet acolytes were even terrified of him in his death and who would be brave enough to replace him. Is this a reflection in Putin’s hold on power? No one close to him dares make the possibly fatal movement of trying to depose him.

 

Putin is ex-KGB, trained and indoctrinated in all methods of subversion, espionage and brutality, inflicted without remorse upon those defenceless individuals who attempt any form of opposition or criticism of his rise to totalitarian domination and rule.

 

 Only the far-sighted amongst us recognised the growing clouds of greater conflict arising from an ex-KGB operator assuming the role of president i.e, dictator. Russia is in a state reminiscent of the old ‘wild west’; The Russian state is ungovernable, uncontrollable and demonic in its global ambitions towards gradual and total European domination.

 

We’ve seen them inevitably come and go. Bonaparte, Hitler, Mao, PolPot, Viet Kong, Kim Jong-un etc. We also have that bland inscrutable Chinese leader Xi Jinping and of course, Putin. Are they stoppable in their political ambitions’? No! China has become too big to deal with but Putin, (rather than Russia) may be. Despite all the national and global condemnation, and the to and fro of rhetoric, I’m afraid only time and whatever circumstances beyond our control, that may arise to ease the current upheaval, will tell.