DJBrenton 738 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I've recently started to notice the use of verbs instead of nouns for some teaching roles, so at David Lloyd we have a 'Swim Coach' which really grates every time I see it. The page below refers to 'swimming skills courses' yet they make 'swim skills easier to understand' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Hyphens are a really interesting (or maybe dull) case. For example dining room is not hyphenated but it should be when combined with another noun as it becomes a noun-adjective compound, so dining-room furniture. Similarly the examples Chulla gave do not take hyphens when on their own but do if attached to another noun as they become nouns describing other nouns so need to become compound. Swimming-pool lane Laughing-gas cylinder and Washing-line post would all be correct but without the last noun they don't need hyphenating. Like I said, interesting or dull? You decide. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 My Oxford English Dictionary does not have swimming pool or swimming-pool, but it does have swimming-bath and swimming-bladder. It also has laughing-gas with the hyphen. It does not have washing line or washing-line, but it does have washing-stand and washing-leather. Edit: Cannot agree with you, DJB. If I wrote 'I saw a swimming-pool', then it requires a hyphen to prevent the reader visualising a pool that is swimming. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,398 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 I find language endlessly fascinating but must admit that English would not be the most logical of languages for a non English-speaking person to learn. Whoops, there's a hyphen in there! I always loved Latin and its logical sentence construction. So much simpler. Never keen on French though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Sorry but I disagree. It only needs hyphenating when it becomes a compound adjective. On it's own it is a verb and noun i.e a pool for swimming. Out of interest I've just confirmed my belief on several grammar guides. https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/nouns-compound.htm http://www.gsbe.co.uk/grammar-the-hyphen.html http://www.edufind.com/english-grammar/compound-nouns/ All say the same and use swimming pool as an example. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Still disagree, DJB, despite your examples. How do you distinguish between 'swimming' being a verb or an adjective when it precedes 'pool'? I think your examples are modern thinking about the written language. Just like hyphens have almost disappeared from following the prefixes ex, pre, mid, etc. Best leave it there. Edit: letsavagoo is right; as usual we drifted off-piste. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
letsavagoo 968 Posted June 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Gentlemen please. This post was about spoken English. Have a bit-more decorum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bubblewrap 3,815 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 #56 Don't you mean piste-off Chulla ? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,398 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I'm sure I'm not alone in my irritation at the use of the word 'like' which so many people use in their conversations these days. For example: "I was like really upset..." or "I was like, what do you think you're doing?" If drives me to distraction! I have great difficulty in restraining myself because I want to shake people who do it and ask why they can't speak properly. Where on earth did this irritating vogue originate and why has it become so widespread? I despair, also, over those whose every other word is an expletive. Don't they realise how tedious they are? English is the language of Shakespeare, full of colour and vibrancy. Even if you only want to insult someone, there are much more creative ways to do it than stringing together repeated four letter words. One only has to look at the quotes of Winston Churchill! Withering but, at the same time,brilliantly creative. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benjamin1945 16,281 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 And often ending the sentance like a question in Upspeak............Grr............sorry sentence..........lol. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Gentlemen please. This post was about spoken English. Have a bit-more decorum. What? You don't pronounce your hyphens? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJBrenton 738 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Sorry to be a pedant Chulla but I do think grammar is important enough not to just leave a misunderstanding on ttable. It is not a modern interpretation but a fine point. The reason swimming pool and thousands of other compound nouns don't appear in your dictionary is because it just isn't big enough. Your copy (unless you have the Complete Oxford, you know the one that fills a whole shelf) will only include common compound nouns when they ARE hyphenated, not every possible combination of words that could become compound nouns without a hyphen. Does yours include coffee table, television stand, car porch or any of the other compounds that follow the same rule as swimming pool? The BBC ( bang on topic) http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv58.shtml When compound nouns function as adjectives, they are normally hyphenated. Compare the following: 'The afternoon was so hot that I decided to go to the open-air swimming pool. I love to eat in the open air in the summer.' 'Air traffic was so dense that afternoon that air-traffic control could hardly cope. I could go on and on with examples from all different sources but I can't find a single one that suggests you should always hyphenate compounds such as swimming pool. Every single one I can find says exactly the same. Time to possibly review a long-held belief? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chulla 4,946 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I think the statement in the above link that 'there is no hard and fast rule' should suffice as an ending to our little disagreement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loppylugs 8,429 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Right on, Jill. The misuse of the word "like" really bugs me too. I thought it originated during the beatnik era of the late fifties. I remember us using it to take the mickie in the early 60s so it's been around for a long time. Those who use it often use the term "goes" instead of "said." As in "so he goes, blah blah" etc. "and then she goes......" "And he was like, ticked off". It seems to have experienced a resurgence in recent years. Ugh! As you noted, foul language loses its shock value after a while and just shows that the user lacks an ability to creatively use good English. Once the Fs start flying I consider the argument already lost. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,109 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 I swear profusely, but I'm certainly not ignorant of the correct usage. I pride myself on having a pretty thorough knowledge of the English language, pronunciation, and punctuation, but there's often times when a knowledge of Anglo Saxon is useful. I must say though that my bad language has certainly got worse as I've aged. Maybe I'm less tolerant which is hard to believe as I was never very tolerant beforehand. Sometimes swearing sums up ones mood as well. If I'm irritated by someone or something, I let fly as some on here will testify. Also, I cannot always be bothered just to swat a fly in the garden. I tell it to F off too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MargieH 7,617 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 When there's fly in our house, I always open the window and ask it to go outside - I try to usher it out gently. I don't want flies walking on food because they do have dirty habits but just because I'm bigger than they are, I don't see why I should kill them. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jill Sparrow 10,398 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well said Margie!! All life is to be respected and I would never deliberately kill anything. I don't understand the anger and violence within some people that compels them to kill, whether people, animals or any form of life for their own gratification. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FLY2 10,109 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Calm down ladies, I didn't say I killed it, only swore at it! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merthyr Imp 729 Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 Gentlemen please. This post was about spoken English. Have a bit-more decorum. I thought decorum was what you do to apples before you bake them? That joke was first broadcast on 'The Navy Lark' in 1960-something. (At any rate that's when I first heard it). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
letsavagoo 968 Posted June 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I thought decorum was what you do to apples before you bake them?That joke was first broadcast on 'The Navy Lark' in 1960-something. (At any rate that's when I first heard it).Ner. That would be de-corem.That's where the ifen comes in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 617 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I would definitely try to reign it in Think that's an eggcorn. See http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/english/34/reign/ After eggcorns, try mondegreens. No, not items for your salad; just misused words and phrases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Engineer 617 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 I do think grammar is important enough not to just leave a misunderstanding Important enough not to split infinitives? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 New speak is happening all de time,grammar as most on here know it is going...maybe in 50 years our language will be altered beyond recognition? Youngsters could watch a Basil Rathbone film and be totally perplexed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redbowen 131 Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 Nowadays they would probably not know who he was. An elementary mistake. If they asked I would just say "Ask Watson." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 12, 2016 Report Share Posted June 12, 2016 On it like a car bonnet Redbowen!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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