DJ360

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I don't know much about fish.. but I recall reading somewhere that Pike was eaten in former times.. though described as having a somewhat 'earthy' flavour.  Pike has its place in the natural order of things and is I assume 'top predator' among British freshwater fish.  Why kill it?  Maybe some 'Sportsmen' don't like it eating the other fish they want to catch?  If so.. then they are as misguided as those who band together in their dozens with shotguns to kill grouse, or pheasant in large numbers,.. but resent the presence of the odd Raptor which may take many fewer birds.

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Quite agree DJ. The person on the tow path, who enlightened us about the killing of the Pike was himself a fisherman. He told us about the act of hitting the Pike on the head to kill them, he himself thought it was wrong and didn't condone the act, but apparently it is often practised by some fisherman for the reason you have written in your post. Not very sporting,when you have to kill to make your catch more likely. :(

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Windy here.  Well windy in a lot of places but we have the added fun of being high up and exposed to the full force of winds off the sea.  My green beans which were only just recovering from the last storm.. are taking a battering again.  I'm going to cover them over with fleece one last time as the wind is forcast to get much worse for a couple of hours this afternoon.  Yesterday I had to add more support to my outdoor tomatoes as the wind blew over 2 out of three.  

On the plus side, I'm looking out at my garden and the main feature for the moment is a group of sunflowers waving at me from the back border.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oaiKMLZ1opdJCuZu7

 

In other news.. today I take the plunge, turn off the water, (mixed metaphors ?  :blink:) and cut into the house water supply.. the 'rising main' in the garage.  I have a new outside tap to connect and there's also a very slow leak which needs fixing.  I'm always nervous about plumbing, though none of my projects has leaked yet..  wish me luck!!

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2 hours ago, nonnaB said:

How's Beekay? I see you are on line but not posting I'm sure we are all wondering if you are feeling better. Keep us updated.

Many thanks for your enquiry Nonna. Yes, I'm still here albeit very tired, progressing though. Only recently started perusing NS properly, but as most of it is none of my business, I don't interfere. The reason it shows I'm always online is because I never sign off. (Did it on one tablet but was still online on another device).

There are some on here with a lot more ailments than me. My deepest respects to them. I remember a saying that was once told me....."I  complained of having no shoes....until I saw a man with no feet"!

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Good to hear from you BK.

The sign on thing is funny.  If I leave my tablet unattended for a few minutes while on NS it signs me out.  It has even signed me out while I was writing a longish post.

Part of the unexplained I guess.

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Good to hear you are doing ok Beekay just on my way home from work can not wait to pull the wifes knickers off, why you ask ? The bloody things are killing me. Take care stay safe.

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Well I asked you to wish me luck with the plumbing....  Did you listen? Clearly not..:angry:

 

I successfully soldered up the new piping for the outside tap and.... feeling quite proud of my efforts.. I went indoors to grab a coffee.

 

When I returned to the garage.. the stopcock was leaking very slightly around the packing gland.  No matter I thought..tighten it up a bit... but remember to get around to fitting a new one..

 

However.. as I was carefully tightening the stopcock packing... the compression joint below the stopcock burst apart. rapidly flooding the garage...  Mercifully I'd cleaned out the stop valve in the street only last week, so was able to cut off the supply in a couple of minutes.

I looked at the problem...  This was exactly what happened 40 years ago in the middle of the night..  The plastic main from the street had been poorly fitted when the house was built and just 'popped off'.  Back then the issue was a pipe end cut on an extreme angle.  I cut it straight, put it back together and all was well for the next 40 years... until tonight....

 

After a bit of 'yed scrattin' and a video consultation with a long time Plumber friend.. we decided that the real problem was the plastic pipe from under the floor was too short... and the solution was to slightly extend the pipe to which it connects.

 

I decided to shoot down to B&Q and get a new stop cock and a couple of fittings... also a new drain cock.  The idea was to cut away the old stop cock and drain cock and fit a new one, piecing the pipe in with a straight coupler.  Straightforward enough. B&Q were 'chucking out' when I arrived, but I got the stopcock and couplings.. and forgot the drain cock...

 

I decided the drain cock wasn't really essential as there are now 2 taps 'T'd off the rising main which can be used to drain down if needed.

 

So.. connected the new stopcock to the coupling which goes onto the plastic incoming... pushed the olive back onto the plastic pipe and tightened up.  One feeble pull from me and it came off again. Hmmmmm.  I realised that the olive needed to go further down the pipe. but couldn't get it to move over the pipe.. because it's been compressed.  It was also unlike any olive I've seen before because it was only tapered on one side... By now it was after 9:00 pm .. I was tired, very hungry and more than a bit 'p****d off.

 

I decided the only way to get water back on before tomorrow was to make the olive fit.... I started by heating it to red heat to 'anneal' (soften) it.  Next, I put it over the tapered steel 'chuck' of an Impact Driver and then placed a suitable sized socket, from a socket set. over it and gave it a whack... That worked.. it stretched out the olive so that it would now fit over the pipe.  Actually..it did so rather too well and I had to put the tapered side of the olive inside a conical fitting to reduce it slightly.  Next.. I was able to force it over the pipe with a bit of careful persuasion.. again using a socket spanner to 'drift' it down over the pipe.

 

Tightened it up as hard as I could and pulled very hard on it.  It stayed on.  Result!!

 

Next up was to cut a pipe to 'piece' between the stopcock and the cut end of the rising main.  Easy enough.  I wanted to put a bit of a bend in it to match the angle of the plastic pipe.. but I couldn't find my spring. (for non plumbers.. a spring is inserted into the pipe so it can be bent without kinking.)

Decided to go with straight... that's been good enough for 44 years..

So.. just needed to put a straight coupler in and solder up....  Piece of cake.... I've just made a dozen solder joints... I'm an expert!!! :cool:

 

But not this time....  For no apparent reason.. the classic 'ring of bright solder around the coupling'.. just would not appear.. despite a good few minutes careful application of the blowlamp.   On 'switch on' the couplng leaked.   So.. Heated again.. pulled that joint apart.. cleaned up and tried again with a new coupler. That one didn't seem any better, but on test. it didn''t leak.... Yippee!  I pulled, poked and prodded it.. but couldn't induce a leak...

 

So.. Finally got water back on at 10:30 and got to eat by 11:00 pm.  Having eaten.. showered etc.  Checked again in garage and no leak.

 

I'm going to bed.....

 

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Sorry i would have,,,but was Nailing screws in all day.....

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Sadly.. this morning.. the offending coupling was weeping very slightly.. but not as much as me....

Have been to a proper plumbers merchants and purchased a new coupling and olive, a new draincock and a compression  coupling for patching into the main.  So.. with luck it should just be a 'bolt up' job.. no soldering..

 

...famous last words......

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You're doing very well Col. In my lengthy experience of the plumbing fraternity, you seem to outshine them. I've always said ' those who can do, those who can't become plumbers'.

 

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1 hour ago, loppylugs said:

Hope you used a Birmingham screwdriver, Ben   ;)

AH i did Loppy...........Gwenith from Chelsmley wood showed me how....many years since....:wacko:

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I have always used Willbond for my plumbing gear, using push & fit & pre soldered joints never had no problems? 

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Plastic pipe and speedfit, it's the future. Don't forget your stiffeners.

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No wimpy plastic pipe for me!!  Proper copper.. and soldered....  As for stiffeners.. How dare you!!  :laugh:

 

Except..  After last nights fiasco with my first ever failed solder joint.. I just used a compression fitting instead. Finally found my spring and put a double bend in the copper to allow the plastic to keep to its natural bend and take the stress out of the coupling. Job done.. relax.. have a nice soak..have a leisurely meal.. at the right time... then sit back and watch th re-run of The Bridge.

 

Perfick

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DJ not using plastic pipe ,your old fashioned, move with the times, well thats what my son told me when I refused to have plastic pipe and fittings. Copper is strong and rigid and gives you the satisfaction of a job well done when completed.

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That’s old technology now. I did notice that the engineers who fitted my new boiler in April still used the old techniques but I do think that plastic speedfit and push connectors are the way forward. Even copper push fit is simpler to use especially in confined spaces where using a blowtorch is difficult to manage safely. So called ‘proper’ plumbers still use end feed fittings and flow the solder in but I’ve seen quite a few failed joints over the years with that method. I guess Yorkshire fittings are more expensive.

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2 hours ago, trogg said:

Copper is strong and rigid

 

And is why it creaks and groans as it expands and contracts  across joists etc. Plastic is light, cheap and very easy to work with. Providing you don't forget the inserts it's virtually foolproof.

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My bathroom was refurbished last year with new shower, basin and loo plus a radiator moved. Several months later my heating kept failing to turn on. The cause being the combi boiler which is outside in the garage had lost all pressure. Re-pressurising it got it working but within a few hours it had lost pressure. I searched the house looking for tell tale damp patches where pipe runs are but saw nothing. Eventually I found that one of the pipes feeding the new radiator in the bathroom was leaking. It was easy to access the pipe work as the radiator was on the bathroom wall the other side of which was under the stairs. The culprit was a joint in a new plastic pipe push fitting leaking very badly where it joined to the pre existing copper pipes on the plastic pipe side. I believe the cause was that the plastic pipe had been cut with a hacksaw and not 100% square. The correct snips should have been used. There wasn’t enough pipe length to recut it so it was replaced It with a copper ‘connex’ fitting with olives. Perfect. Personally I prefer and trust copper and solder. Never had a problem. If the pipes cleaned, bit of flux and even heat It works. The main problem I’ve encountered in the past is when working on existing pipes, even a small amount of water left in the pipes can prevent a good joint. I suspect that may be your issue Col.

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This is where New Basford Lad was so helpful. I still miss his contributions to the site and his hilarious plumbing stories.

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In all seriousness.. if I was doing a major job, such as the bathroom refurb I did a few years back.. I might consider using push fit plastic..or more likely copper push fit. But, for 'small' jobs like the outside tap I just fitted.. and especially for repairing the very iffy original 44 year old installation which caused me so much bother in the last couple of days.. I'll stick with metal. My old Plumber mate, who I've known for almost 60 years, says he always thought push fit and plastic were for amateurs.. and beneath his professional dignity.. but he now thinks they are brilliant.

 

On the subject of cost though.... a quick trawl of the Screwfix site for 15mm equal elbow fittings, reveals that plastic is not cheap, c.f. copper. I couldn't be bothered getting exact prices as there are often bulk savings for buying in 10s or 20s but... So it seems plastic push fit is cheaper than copper push fit.. but traditional brass 'compression' fittings are cheaper and good old end fed only about 12-15% of the cost of push fit.. though to be picky you also need solder. and a blowlamp

 

Plastic =                                            £1:19- 1:59 each.

Brass 'compression'                        £1:24 each.

Copper 'push fit'                               £ 1:79 each.

Copper 'Yorkshire' (pre-soldered) £ 0.74 each

Copper 'End fed'                                 £.0:20 each.

 

3metres of 15mm copper pipe = £5:74.  Plastic = £4.74.. so the plastic pipe is a bit cheaper... but you also need your 'inserts' at around 20p each.

 

For a small D.I.Y. job I can certainly see the attraction of plastic.. and the difference in price is probably far outweighed by the convenience and ease.. especially if you don't have experience of soldering..a blowlamp and other tools etc.  But its clear that a large install by a pro plumber is going to be vastly cheaper using traditional fittings.

 

Another thing to consider is whether inserting a section of plastic pipe into a copper system is 'breaking' the electrical Earth bonding which is required. Brew will know more about that.. but I am still wondering if my recent kitchen install did that.  The first thing the bloke did after stripping the old kitchen out.. was to break into the ceiling and connect to the incoming hot and cold copper feeds. which he then ran down the corner in plastic and along the floor to roughly where the new sink dishwasher and washing machine were going. On the upside.. the new electrics now have the whole house protected by RCDs. 

 

As seems to be the way with kitchen fitters. a pretty gruesome collection of plastic, copper and 'flexi'  pipes were all more or less hidden in the gap between the back of the cupboards and the wall. Everything was done for the easiest.  I wasn't impressed, but on the other hand was glad to finally be getting a nice shiny new kitchen so I kept my own counsel. To be fair when the plastering was done and the posh units fitted, nothing was visible but I shudder to think of that mess just out of sight.  The way they do things now is to bring all waste from appliances and the sinks to one sort of inverted 'Christmas Tree of U bends etc.. which take up so much space as to render the cupboard under the sink all but unusable. I'd previously had separate wastes for the Washer and Dishwasher, running outside to the same 'gulley' as the sink.  And they didn't take up half the kitchen.  I've just had a good look into the 'cupboard of horrors' just to remind myself and I noticed the single waste pipe to the outside is running slightly uphill.. and I can see daylight round the pipe.  Something else I'll have to sort out when I get a Round Tuit.

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4 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

even a small amount of water left in the pipes can prevent a good joint. I suspect that may be your issue Col.

 

It may well have been letsav..  though I've soldered similarly wet pipes before without much difficulty including a long term 'weepy' joint near the top of the rising main.. where I cut out a leaky end fed and put new pipe in using a solder ring coupler.  Another possibility dawned on me yesterday...

On Friday when trying to get the old olive onto the plastic incoming main.. I resorted to using a bit of Castrol grease.  I wiped my hands on a cloth afterwards.. but later used the same hands to flux the solder ring straight coupler which failed.  I suppose it's just possible that residual grease on my hands prevented the flux from working properly.  Who knows?

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DJ360I know what the plumbing problem was cased by. You used Yorkshire fittings in Lancashire of course they would not work! 

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