Anything Political

[Beekay 5,145]

Love it CF.

[Brew 5,417]

There are people like that CF and we've all seen them but I suspect they are a minority. I simply think it wrong that ordinary folk are in such dire straits, probably through no fault of their own, they need assistance to feed themselves.

Ignoring the political conspiracy bit DJ360 is right to think the comapany are well and truly extracting the urine and trying to screw the public purse for all they can, sadly there seems to be litttle to no checks or balance by the powers that be to monitor them.

[annswabey 599]

I'm pleased you posted, that, Brew - you beat me to it.  Shame on the poster and those who liked the post

[philmayfield 6,134]

I take no shame on agreeing with Catfan.

[roger peatman 337]

Certainly not !!

The post is totally applicable in many cases and not in many others.

[catfan 14,793]

Being a single parent myself a few years ago struggling to bring up my two kids was very difficult in many ways including financial issues.

I never claimed benefits just worked full time & a second job at the weekends to make ends meet.

Before anyone suggests I have an axe to grind, well I don't, I brought my kids up through my own endeavours with no handouts.

Both kids grew up with decent jobs nowadays, hard work pays.

Many young parents don't have a clue, usually brought up on benefits as children themselves.

The cycle of benefit dependence needs to be broken.

 

[annswabey 599]

I knew you'd done that by your previous posts, CF, so fair play to you.  Like Brew, though, I think the people you mention in your original post are in the minority and its never the fault of the child.  A hungry child needs food

[Beekay 5,145]

Well put Catfan, you present an admirable case

More power to your elbow. A deserving case of pride in your children and independence and self reliance. 

[Brew 5,417]

And you should be quite rightly proud of doing so however times and situations change. True the benefits roundabout can self perpetuate and there are those who really know how to work the system.   But we mustn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Punishing the genuine cases, which I'm convinced are the majority, to deny the greedy and profane is just plain wrong.

[Beekay 5,145]

I were listening to an article on our local news recently and listening to this woman bitterly complaining what was in her box delivery. No sign of gratitude that somebody had taken the time to assemble and deliver the goods. You could see behind her, the state of the "garden", car engine, fridge,broken chair etc. Sadly, this is the image presented to us mere mortals. 

[Brew 5,417]

And  that is proof the majority are like that?

News and media will always go for the shocking rather than a boring single mother doing her best, a guy like CF working two  jobs to make ends meet just 'aint worth a mention.

A headline screaming 'benefits cheat' will always trump the couple of column inches on page six of a family with two quid to last the week but the kids are clean and cared for...

 

Edit:

Forgot the link... and not an engine block insight.

 

https://www.stateofhunger.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/State-of-Hunger-Report-November2019-Digital.pdf

[LizzieM 9,507]

I was in Top Valley Tesco the other week, walking out past the big container which is there for donations for the needy amongst us.  There was a well-dressed woman, having obviously paid for a trolley load of groceries, taking stuff out of the ‘donations box’ and placing it into her full trolley.  I was astounded but I walked by and said nothing as I didn’t want a confrontation. .  There are thousands needing help through no fault of their own and many thousands more not helping themselves by not changing their lifestyles, Sky TV, cigarettes and alcohol are not essentials but many of those struggling families enjoy all of those ‘luxuries’ ...... and they keep having kids too.   My husband was one of 6 kids, he had free school meals and has said how embarrassing it was for him as a little boy during the register every week.  Those early experiences made him the hard-working man he still is in his 70s, but he is always looking to lower our household bills but  if I cancelled Virgin TV he’d kick up a fuss! 

[Brew 5,417]

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

I've said on here before, growing up as I did, nothing exceptional, but it gave me a hatred of poverty  and hunger and like your husband worked my $£%! off to get out.

I still say we can't punish the many because of a few, as a society we should be better than that.

[DJ360 6,730]

11 hours ago, Brew said:

I don't believe political donations made by a private individual have any bearing.

 

Col presupposed they would not refund any money, apparently they will.

 

 

If political donations have no effect.. why are they made?

 

If they are paying back some money.. it's a start.  But you and I both know that the likes of Serco, Crapita and G4S have sucked up millions of TAX PAYERS MONEY via Tory outsourcing and frequently failed on contract delivery with little, or inadequate penalty.  More telling.. they are never barred from further contracts.  And the less said about Carillion.. the better.

 

Bottom line here Jim, is that it is the first instinct of the Tories to look for a private sector firm, one which is close to them.. to deliver on any Govt contract.  This is a general policy specifically designed to put Public Money.. Taxes etc.. into Private Hands. It follows.. that those Private firms make their profits by either overcharging, under delivering, or paying crap wages.

[DJ360 6,730]

2 hours ago, roger peatman said:

Certainly not !!

The post is totally applicable in many cases and not in many others.

 

What Catfan  posted was a massive generalisation.. supported by zero evidence.  He did the same years back by implying that everybody who lives in 'Aspleh' is a crook.  Such simplistic generalisation is completely unhelpful..and it is harmful in that it further fosters untruths and prejudice.

Even if it was meant as a joke. I don't think these issues are funny.  Somewhere in this country tonight there are many kids who are hungry, cold or scared. It is NEVER their fault.

 

It isn't always their parent's fault. A woman was shown on TV explaining her sadness at the state of the 'food parcels' delivered. I saw no iPhone, Big TV etc.  I don't know why she is in the position she is.. but it could easily be an abusive partner, an absent partner etc. She could be a widow.

 

There are many possible explanations... but, having experienced unemployment, homelessness, mental illness etc., in my life.. I can assure you all that VERY FEW people deliberately put themselves in these positions of poverty.  I can also assure you that the Benefits system offers no 'Free Rides', or 'Luxurious Idleness'...to anyone..and I challenge all to prove otherwise.

[Brew 5,417]

5 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

If political donations have no effect.. why are they made?

 

For the same reasons people pay for a Labour party membership subscription!

 

7 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

But you and I both know that the likes of Serco, Crapita and G4S have sucked up millions of TAX PAYERS MONEY

We've been over this time and again. The Blair/Brown dynamic duo did little different and saddled the present lot with debts and payments that will take decades to clear. A bit like Nottingham tram system.

 

Any modern government will seek the private sector to full major contracts, the alternatives to contracting out is direct labour. Governments from both sides have been there done that and got out quick as they could - it's a disaster.

 

There is no conspiracy to line the pockets of their friends, their friends like all good businesses seek to gain an advantage. similar to the unions pouring millions into Labours pockets hoping to take advantage should they gain power.

[DJ360 6,730]

2 minutes ago, Brew said:

Any modern government will seek the private sector to full major contracts, the alternatives to contracting out is direct labour.

 

It really isn't. There were always major contractors for defence etc.. and what were effectively Nationalised contractors for essentials such as Health, Infrastructure et. al.  But the phenomenon of dishing out contracts like Smarties for every little thing is most defintely a Thatcherite policy and it is very specifically aimed at both undermining established National functions such as the NHS, and pushing public money into Private Corporate Hands.  It is undeniable.

[roger peatman 337]

Catfan's post was a "to whom it may concern" message.

A "massive generalisation" it was not.

[DJ360 6,730]

2 hours ago, Beekay said:

Well put Catfan, you present an admirable case

More power to your elbow. A deserving case of pride in your children and independence and self reliance. 

 

But if you are a single parent.. for whatever reason.. and you are unemployed.. for whatever reason.. which is hardly surprising in the current circumstances.. and you have been left homeless... because without a job you cannot pay rent...and.. and.. peple here are basically saying that Kids should starve.

I find that quite sickening.

[DJ360 6,730]

8 minutes ago, roger peatman said:

Catfan's post was a "to whom it may concern" message.

A "massive generalisation" it was not.

 

Clearly it wasn't.  He did not specify who he was accusing. He accused all.. just as he accused all in 'Aspleh' of being crooks.

 

Whether he really means it..is another issue

[Brew 5,417]

 

 

13 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

21 minutes ago, Brew said:

Any modern government will seek the private sector to full major contracts, the alternatives to contracting out is direct labour.

 

It really isn't

 

If direct labour is not the alternative to contracted work, what is?

 

Dishing out like Smarties is merely hyperbole and is hardly true. Governments handing out massive contracts has always been with us, especially for 'infrastructure,' Wilson was PM when the first motorway was built so we can hardly blame Thatcher for that.

 

The NHS is a shambles and I predict it can't go for many more years before it implodes under its own mass.

 

Public money goes into private hands of course it does, nothing would get done otherwise. Road builders have to be paid, Crossrail. the Green Line. the Princess line and HS2 all need paying before it starts its long journey back to the exchequer through taxation.

Quite why you resent companies making profits is beyond me. The companies you mention get a lot of bad publicity, deservedly so in some instances, but make large profits. It may seem excessive but viewed in accounting terms their operating margin is less than 2.5% (Serco). Like the benefit cheats mentioned above we mostly only see the bad stuff.

 

 

[benjamin1945 16,160]

When working for the Coop in Security in several areas of Nottingham.........many was the time i was almost reduced to tears to see children as young as four stealing food because they were hungry........one little 4 year old girl at Strelley Coop will forever be etched in my mind....

           Tiny thing came in alone,,,summers day...wearing Wellingtons..and an old fashioned 'Frock'' blonde Hair all matted and a dirty face.......she helped herself to Crisps and chocolate....

             Bad Parents no doubt.....a minority certainly....but children should never suffer..no matter what the circumstances....

[nonnaB 4,895]

A long way from U.K. But similar situations  of not enough money and starving children. Things had the same character but very differently in Sicily. My husband is the eldest of 7. In a tiny village outside Palermo with the Mafia in near attendance things really were tight. His father had no employment , his mother did some part time work at the convent. She and her mil could make  a meal out of very little to feed her children.

( things which I have learned from her) His grandmother had a shop and all she could spare was some flour and a little bit of pasta. They would walk round the fields looking herbs herbs that they could cook and eat. Nothing was thrown away it was reused. Obviously no tv and my husband recalls one person had bought a tv and all the village took a chair up to his house to " watch"  He said all you could see was wavy lines. But it was new, a novelty, something different. No games like today that kids don't see able to do without. They made their own games up, went scrumping. He nearly got shot because he was up a tree throwing down apples to his friend that had a moped. He saw and heard the farmer coming with a shotgun so he shouted to his friend to start the moped for a quick exit. They got away just in time. He was always late for school because he probably got into some mischief , the school door was always locked so he used to climb on the outside to get in from a small window that was always open.He always had a catapult hanging from his pocket, he and his friends would aim at anything including things that he regrets and feels ashamed off today, but they were kids enjoying what things they could. Surrounding the village were fields of corn and he would stand and watch the waves caused by the wind and would imagine what the sea was like. He only said the other day after seeing something on tv that " we had nothing, nothing but we had everything and we had a wonderful childhood". I feel for the families that cannot manage and glad that these baskets for provisions are always available in these instances. We have them permanently outside supermarkets but for a person whoever it Is takes a product from these baskets is unbelievable. I don't think I could have let it go unnoticed. 

Sorry it's a long post but was reminded of the continuing story of 50 or more years of my husbands childhood however hard it was they were able to survive and enjoy the few things they had.

[catfan 14,793]

Like Lizzie Ms husband I well remember free school meals in the 60s & 60s. A dinner ticket with “FREE” stamped across the ticket & even sitting on separate tables in the dining room away from the kids who paid for their dinner.

A few years ago I met a young single mum who had two kids & we worked out that she was better off on benefits than I was working full time, hard to believe but true. I continued to work not wanting my kids to be stigmatised like I was. When my kids were at school in the 80s they told me they were among the few kids who paid for school dinners, how times had changed.

Successive political parties made the benefit culture more beneficial than actually working for a living, my daughter who works in child & family services tells me that some kids today have parents & grandparents who have never had a job in their life. It is all about breaking the benefit dependency culture as she puts it. Many times I have heard the phrase “I am better off on benefits than working” . Something is drastically wrong with the system somewhere.

I fully understand the mentality of the illegal immigrants coming across the Chanel to get here with all the benefits waiting for them.   

DJ360 I never said all the residents of Aspleh were crooks, Just a good few of them!

Children should never go hungry.

[Jill Sparrow 10,306]

In the course of my work in recent years, I've organised food parcels for people who requested them. Hard working volunteers at various charities spend their time packing the parcels with items which cater to that family's needs.  The recipients, who live locally, need to take a letter from social services to the food bank in order to collect the food. I lost count of the times I was told they weren't coming to collect it. Could I scan it and email it to their smartphone. Could someone bring it to the house? They wouldn't be in but the children would. On their own.

 

Yes, Ben, children in their pyjamas in Tesco, stealing food, when they should be in bed at night. Sent by a parent. I've encountered all that and much, much, much worse. Not going into any further detail. It would make most sane people sick. Suffice it to say that it doesn't do much for your view of humanity. I know what it's done for mine.