Electric Cars & Scooters

[DJ360 6,730]

What's the practical difference between a  political ranting over a given issue..and a non political ranting over the same issue?

I'd argue that both, are  in fact, political, because both concern policy over the issue in question and are attempts to drive policy in the direction favoured by the poster.

 

[letsavagoo 963]

16 hours ago, Brew said:

even if it cost more to tax, more to run and pollutes the atmosphere as per this discussion? 

(Well that’s assuming that dj continues to use a car. It would be even more commendable to give up using a car completely but I was speaking with the assumption that he was continuing with car use.)

Agree but dj says he doesn’t do many miles in the car so it’s a balance between the environment cost of manufacturing a new vehicle or using the one he already has. I’ve no idea how much pollution is caused in extracting  the raw materials, processing them to usable products, getting them to one site and then assembling them together into a vehicle which is then shipped to the end user as opposed to actually using the current car but I’d wager using the one he has for many years would outweigh the overall environmental cost of the new one. 

I am surprised at the size of the majority of new cars. The trend seems to be for bigger and bigger vehicles. When I was young a Jag or Ford Zepher seemed huge but they pale into insignificance with the majority of cars today. Surely smaller cars use less material, weigh less and can be more economical. I suppose some of it is for crumple zones and safety but do they need to be so big.
Having said that improved engineering and technology mean that those smaller cars of yesteryear did considerably less mpg than current larger models. 

[letsavagoo 963]

16 hours ago, DJ360 said:

What's the practical difference between a  political ranting over a given issue..and a non political ranting over the same issue?

I'd argue that both, are  in fact, political, because both concern policy over the issue in question and are attempts to drive policy in the direction favoured by the poster.

 

The practical difference is the political ones go on the ‘political thread’. 
I can see this one getting close.

[plantfit 7,601]

On order

 

 

 

Rog

[Beekay 5,153]

Large one for me Rog. But can it say ' use more oil.

[DJ360 6,730]

23 hours ago, plantfit said:

Coal in the UK start off in the west very shallow and gets deeper as you go further east,

 

A broad trend I believe, as the whole country dips from West to East, but not sure it's quite that simple.

 

For e.g., there's a lot of coal very close to the surface around Wigan and St Helens. Until recently it was easily visible alongside the M6 and M58. During the 1980s.. or possibly later.. I can't recall exactly.. some 'privateer', opened a drift mine close to the highest point on the ridge which separates Wigan and St Helens.... yards from the A 571. It was literally in the middle of a farmer's field. It's long closed, but the gate from the road is still there.

 

And yet.. only a few miles east, close to Leigh, was the Parsonage-Bickershaw-Golborne mine complex. The deepest associated shaft was around 1000m or 3281 ft. The deepest workings extended to 1400m or 4600 ft., and trended South West. Rock temperatures at that depth reached 48 degrees C. I can attest to that because I went down Parsonage on a visit a couple of years before it was closed. It was as hot as hell on the face and the faceworkers practically naked, which raised a few grins amongst the ladies in our party. Our host, a manager, later explained to us that they operated a very fine balance between heat and ventilation, as too much oxygen rich air being pumped down there increased risks.

 

Although there are frequent debates on mining history web sites, and there's often confusion between shaft depth, and total depth of workings, it does seem to be generally agreed that Parsonage, along with nearby Sutton Manor Colliery in St Helens were pretty deep. By contrast Linby and Bestwood in Notts, were around 3-400m deep.

As far as I can tell the seams worked in Lancs were different to those worked around Nottm.

[philmayfield 6,144]

There was a lot of controversy when they decided to build a mine at Asfordby near Melton Mowbray around 1991, the last mine to be sunk in England. I recollect the Duke of Rutland threatening to lie down in front of the bulldozers as workings would be under the Vale of Belvoir. The mine was opened but only for about six years when geological faults prevented further extraction of coal.

[Oztalgian 3,298]

17 minutes ago, DJ360 said:

As far as I can tell the seams worked were different to those worked around Nottm.

They certainly were different seams from those mined in the North or South Notts Areas. In early days in Lancashire the name of the pit was often the name of the seam that was being worked

[DJ360 6,730]

21 hours ago, Brew said:

even if it cost more to tax, more to run and pollutes the atmosphere as per this discussion? 

 

Ok Jim.. I'll bite...

The car has a second hand value of about £800 at best. What could I get for 800 quid that would equal it in driveability, comfort, and most of all reliability?  Answer.. not much. It's also still below 80k mileage.

I'd save a fair bit on road tax with certain vehicles, but hardly anything worthwhile can be had new under £30k, or s/h, under around £10k. I don't have that sort of cash to spare and I'm certainly not going into debt or getting into the several £ hundred p.m. leasing trap.

And despite my Civic's relatively poor fuel consumption figures, c.f. more modern cars, I'd have to do an awful lot more mileage to get close to the total emissions clocked up by those who spend their days charging up and down the motorways in their huge 'Beemers', SUVs etc.. Neighbours across the road have gone through several cars each in the 11 years I've had my Civic... Their choice and their cash. (of which they have plenty), but who's 'carbon footprint' will be bigger?

[DJ360 6,730]

On 8/10/2023 at 10:35 AM, plantfit said:

Most reinstated open cast sites have been turned into nature reserves or capped over for agricultural use, many into top class fisheries that charge a fortune to fish them, take a look at that well known nature reserve near Nottingham, Attenborough nature reserve, won many prizes for innovation and awards for their work with local nature and wildlife, it was started off by open cast for sand and gravel

 

Rog

 

Yes, what you say is correct. BUT, the gravel won from the Attenboro area, is not, in itself, polluting. It's rock, which tends to stay pretty much as it is without extreme treatment. I'd imagine the bulk of it is sitting quietly in concrete in assorted locations.

On the other hand, although we can grass over slag heaps, or build over the sites of deep mines, we can't put the Carbon, CO2, and other combustion products of the extracted Coal back in the ground.  We've released not only the energy, but the Carbon, into our planet's atmosphere, and we are seeing the result.

[Brew 5,421]

2 hours ago, DJ360 said:

The car has a second hand value of about £800 at best.

 

It was, as I'm sure you realise, posted with tongue firmly in cheek.

But! if you think saving the planet comes second to personal bank balances, or if you think worker solidarity counts for naught and thousands who depend on motor manufacturing are OK to be thrown on the mercy of the Tory social system - who am I to say no?      

[DJ360 6,730]

 

Of course..

We'll just have to hope that the Tories make a better fist of limiting the damage to communities around Car manufacturing plants, than they did when they abandoned every mining, steel making and shipbuilding community in the UK to its fate.

[Rob.L 1,090]

I’ve thought about going electric, but for me, the negatives far outweigh the positives so far (sorry!). We need something far better than lithium ion. Batteries that will charge quicker, weigh less, deliver far more range, and be a damn sight more friendly to the environment.

 

And then there’s the (lack of) charging infrastructure should you need to add juice on the road. I’d not want to join a queue of electric cars all waiting hours for their half an hour (or more) of being plugged in. Filling with diesel or petrol takes about five minutes.

 

I just checked, a Tesla weighs about 2.5 tons - twice the weight, yet can only carry the same number of people for less than half the distance at twice the price, of my 8 year old 50mpg Euro-5 ULEZ compatible diesel Hyundai.

[IAN FINN 808]

Is there still a lot of subsidence from the mining in Nottinghamshire phil? it was really bad in the 60s around Nuthall,Watnall and Eastwood i think you got compensation from the Coal Board but there was always movement. One farmer i know lost his tractor when a giant sink hole opened up in his field on Long Lane Watnall.

[philmayfield 6,144]

Not anymore Ian, I think mining subsidence is a thing of the past. 

[letsavagoo 963]

 

13 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

On 8/10/2023 at 3:50 PM, DJ360 said:

What's the practical difference between a  political ranting over a given issue..and a non political ranting over the same issue?

I'd argue that both, are  in fact, political, because both concern policy over the issue in question and are attempts to drive policy in the direction favoured by the poster.

 

The practical difference is the political ones go on the ‘political thread’. 
I can see this one getting close.

 

 

6 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

Of course..

We'll just have to hope that the Tories make a better fist of limiting the damage to communities around Car manufacturing plants, than they did when they abandoned every mining, steel making and shipbuilding community in the UK to its fate.

There you go. I rest my case.  
Political. 

[plantfit 7,601]

8 hours ago, letsavagoo said:

 

 

 

There you go. I rest my case.  
Political. 

ADMIN, CAN WE HAVE THIS PERSONS POLITICAL RANTINGS PUT IN THE POLITCAL SECTION PLEASE?

I have blocked this persons comments but they still come through when someone uses the "Quote", for what it's worth lestsavagoo I agree with you

 

Rog

[Hey Arnold 88]

14 hours ago, Rob.L said:

I’ve thought about going electric, but for me, the negatives far outweigh the positives so far (sorry!). We need something far better than lithium ion. Batteries that will charge quicker, weigh less, deliver far more range, and be a damn sight more friendly to the environment.

 

A viable alternative already exists in the form of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles 'though there are two issues at the moment though. The complete lack of infrastructure with regards to refuelling and the production of hydrogen is not currently eco friendly. Toyota have, and continue to, poured significant sums into the development of the technology. The range of these vehicles is comparable to petrol and diesel cars as is filling up.

[Annesley Red 80]

20 hours ago, Oztalgian said:

They certainly were different seams from those mined in the North or South Notts Areas. In early days in Lancashire the name of the pit was often the name of the seam that was being worked

In the East Midlands some of the seams were known by the name of where they outcropped  ie Tupton, m(Low Main ) and probably Brinsley .

Not sure how Waterloo and  Hazle got their names . We were told that the coal went deeper to the east and there was coal measures  to last a hundred or more years . The plan was to win the coal then sink new shaft and so on. That didn't happen and we were on the dole 

[Oztalgian 3,298]

3 hours ago, Annesley Red said:

We were told that the coal went deeper to the east and there was coal measures  to last a hundred or more years

Yes it did and there was, Bevercotes, supposedly the worlds first automated (push button) pit was the most easterly pit in Nottinghamshire when it was sunk in 1954-5. The shafts were sunk to 863 and 878 metres. It worked the following seams, the Low Waterloo, Deep Soft, Kents Thick, Top Hard and Parkgate

Ollerton was only 512 metres deep and worked the Top Hard and Parkgates seams.

Thoresby was originally sunk to 690 metres and then in the early 1950s was deepened by a further 109 metres. It worked the Top Hard, Parkgates, Deep Soft and High Hazels.

By definition one of the most eastern pits Teversal was only 227 metres deep and it too worked the Top Hard seam.

The difference between Teversal and Bevercotes illustrates the further east you went the deeper the seams were.

 

[DJ360 6,730]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:09 AM, plantfit said:

Coal is king and what's more it's ours, British coal under British soil, not French or Chinese, not buying from the Russians or importing wood pellets from North America, dig up the coal and use it, the Chinese and Russians do and no one is demonstrating against them or gluing themselves to the roads and throwing orange dust all over the place

 

Rog

 

 

On 8/10/2023 at 1:53 PM, plantfit said:

But it's alright for men (and women in some cases) in foreign lands to dig the stuff out of the ground for us, I see, what about unmanned machinery getting the black gold out of the ground, seems to work in some countries, maybe the reason this country is no longer the world leader it used to be is because we would sooner pay some other poor sod to access the coal/gas/oil who's country has nowhere near the H&S rules and regs and access to modern technology that we do but if the tree hugging nimby's are happy with that then so be it

 

Rog

 

On 8/10/2023 at 12:51 PM, plantfit said:

 trouble with the UK is there are a load of "nimby tree huggers" who would sooner pay through the nose for fuel/energy for someone else to dig it out of the ground than have our own self sufficient fuel/energy, well not everyone can afford the stupid prices for imported energy and fuel or doesn't that bother the so called rich in this greedy world we live in

 

Rog

 

The above posts are ALL political. They are about the conduct of our society, our economy etc.. Just because the poster does not attach a Party label to these ideas does not mean they are not political.

 

https://openstax.org/books/introduction-political-science/pages/1-1-defining-politics-who-gets-what-when-where-how-and-why

 

However, I will endeavour not to make Party Political statements outside the Politics thread.

[DJ360 6,730]

10 hours ago, plantfit said:

ADMIN, CAN WE HAVE THIS PERSONS POLITICAL RANTINGS PUT IN THE POLITCAL SECTION PLEASE?

I have blocked this persons comments but they still come through when someone uses the "Quote", for what it's worth lestsavagoo I agree with you

 

Rog

 

Roger my friend, please feel free to name me. I don't bite. Block my comments if you wish.  There's also a report button.

For what it's worth, most of the posts in this thread are political, but some choose not to attach them to a Political Party.

[Oztalgian 3,298]

We usually change our car every 4 to 5 years. I went to the local dealer today and asked about lead times to replace our current model. I was told an 18 month wait for an ICE car, 2 years if I wanted the hybrid version.

As it is a multi-franchise dealership I had a look at an all-electric car. They have all the styling of three cardboard boxes glued together. Although we could charge at home the ranges on offer are impractical for our use, as is the charging network out of metropolitan areas.

When looking closely at the engineering and having worked in the component industry for many years, there is another major shock coming for workers in the industry. EV vehicles have no I.C engine and all its associated parts, block, pistons, con-rods/caps crankshafts/camshafts and all the control electronics. No fuel tank, lines or pumps. No gearboxes, manual or auto, no clutches, prop shafts, cooling systems or exhausts. I could go on as these are replaced by one or two electric motors, electronic control and monitoring systems and heavy battery systems and their carriers and cooling management systems

What are the workers in these component manufacturers going to do when they are thrown on the scrapheap of technology? An EV is estimated to use 40% less labour to build than a ICE so the workers in the car plants will be affected too.

[IAN FINN 808]

Back to my bicycle Oz if i can still ride it complete with the wheel dynamo for the lights.