Sea level conundrum.

[Beduth 202]

I guess we are now all aware of the potential consequences of global warming with the catastrophic rise in sea level but the prospect has made me think of more trivial matters in regard to the mass melting of the icefields.

‘Sea Level’ is a level that is a constant to which the height of many natural landmarks is referred to. Now I don’t know if this level is a theoretical one or if it relates to a particular physical location, much like Greenwich is the base line for longitudinal measurement.

If or when the sea level rises, will all these heights have to be recalibrated against a revised ‘sea level’ or will it mean that Everest and K2 will no longer be as high as they used to be? What about all the trig points throughout the world that are logged in relation to the sea level and if the rise is progressive, how will that be handled in the official data logs?

Since we have constant tidal movement how is the sea level determined anyway? I’ve no idea.

What I can say however, is that a country house not far from where I live (smack in the middle) is called ‘Tides Reach’; I hope that isn’t an omen!

[loppylugs 8,429]

I always find this whole thing a bit puzzling. I won't get into the whole global warming thing, thats a topic by itself.

When I was in school science I was told that ice has a lower specific gravity than water and that is why ice floats on the surface of water rather than sinking to the bottom.

If you take a glass of water with some ice in it as the ice melts the water level does not rise much at all. Thus the question becomes, where is all this extra water supposed to be coming from?

My science might be a bit weak here, its been a long time.

[catfan 14,793]

Simple answer.

Measure the sea level when the tides gone out !

Mind you I did notice on my way to church the other day that Bulwell "Bogs" was at a much higher level than normal !

[StephenFord 866]

I seem to remember from school days (and I haven't checked this online, but I guess it will be there somewhere) that "sea level" is actually mean sea level at Newlyn, Cornwall. This doesn't answer the question about what happens if/when sea level rises, but maybe its a starting point.

[philmayfield 6,171]

The mean sea level is based on measurements taken at Newlyn between 1915 and 1921. I'm not aware that this has been superseded.

[loppylugs 8,429]

Tide in or out though. There still has to be approximately the same amount of water in the sea. Not trying to be argumentative here. Just trying to figure it out if the science I was taught is correct.

Bulwell bogs is probably always higher after Saturday night. Lol.

[benjamin1945 16,172]

Think your'e right Loppy,the Leen does flucuate,crossed it this morning,.....it was running fast and looking remarkably clean..........and have'nt seen a shopping trolley in it for weeks........think we arre getting a much better class of 'scrotes' lately.......lol.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Trust in science Dave?? I remember when I started at Tech, Peoples College for us apprentice elecs, until I got an NCB apprenticeship that is.. Elec theory...yep I know all theory... we were spending time studying Direct Current, it's laws and physics, one week on day release we were taught electrons flow from positive to negative, next week the opposite, this went on until someone in science suggested we accept the pos to neg theory until it was "flogged out" and proven one way or another...Still hasn't happened yet, and that's over 50 years on.

Then when self studying radio theory some years back, I was further confused in electron tube theory, (valves) where current flows one way between cathode and plate, and electrons flow the opposite way.........I still find it a load of bovine excreta.

[DJBrenton 738]

The rising sea level theory is based on ice that is currently above the sea melting and hence raising the level. There is a lot of untruths and obfuscation out there to prove that it's happening and it doesn't lend credibility to the theory. We've already survived certain nuclear holocaust and a mini-ice age if the scientists had been right as I grew up so I guess we'll outlive this scare too. Maybe if global warming is disastrous enough we'll have as many vineyards in the South of England as in Roman times.

[NewBasfordlad 3,599]

#6 Loppy not approximately the same amount of water in the sea ..............exactly the same amount of water, just that some of it is in a different place.

Ice is less dense than water hence ice bergs float. Use to know the ratio at one time but memory fades.

As far as I know there has always been the same amount of water in the world, in different places and different formats but the same amount of water.

Just think the next time you have a glass of water somebody/something has pissed it a thousand times before..........

[loppylugs 8,429]

Good to see you back, John. Haven't seen a post from you in a while.

I tend to trust so called science very little, but they do get a few things right. :-). Not sure whether the sea level thing is one of them though. I suppose the jury is still out on the old pos - neg thing though. I suppose someone has to think they've explained everything even if it doesn't stand up.

I've been seeing a lot of stuff on You tube lately about a revival in the flat earth theory. While many of the comments are just ridicule and foul language, surely we owe it to ourselves to research such ideas oblectively. Btw. I'm not a flat earther just using it as an example.

Just examining my response to flat earth there. Peer pressure? Folks generally think flat earthers are crazy so no one wants to be thought of as one.

Does seem to be an observable fact though, that if you have a glass of water with ice in it. It does not overflow as the ice melts.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I can't understand anyone believing the earth is "flat" Dave. There's plenty of evidence of the globe truth.

Anyone who has been to sea will tell you the curvature of the earth is apparent on the oceans, you can watch a ship start to appear on the horizon and watch it disappear on the opposite horizon. Then there are mathematics used by mariners using the sextant to plot the position of the ship, yes, even today it's required to be able to plot positions using the sextant and charts for a Masters ticket.

All the Low Orbiting Satellites better known as LEO's, even live ISS video shows the earth is a globe, then Amateur Radio balloons carrying video cameras and radios show the curvature of the earth, and it's apparent on the flight deck of aircraft at 30 plus thousand miles above the ground.

Then last by not least, navigation and circumnavigation of the earth by sailors past.

Mind it's interesting and funny watching the flat earthers with their insane theories on Youtube.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

BTW, I sailed to the US from Australia on a container ship, the curvature of the earth on a "mill pond" ocean is so obvious. When I migrated to Australia in 79, I got permission to go to the flight deck, something they won't allow these days, and WOW, what a view!! Far better than looking at the wing.

[NewBasfordlad 3,599]

#11 Because of its lower density the ice takes up more space than the water it contains, then add in the meniscus of the water it is quite possible

for the ice above water level to be absorbed without the glass over flowing.

On the other hand it could just be that someone has taken a ........................great big slurp............

[Michael Booth 7,364]

Ayupmeducks, I can remember taking one of my children into the cockpit (flight deck) a few years ago.

I can't remember where we were flying to but, like you state, it's something that'll never be allowed again.

It's a shame because it's a memorable experience.

[colly0410 1,181]

Then when self studying radio theory some years back, I was further confused in electron tube theory, (valves) where current flows one way between cathode and plate, and electrons flow the opposite way.........I still find it a load of bovine excreta.

Then when they get to transistors you get holes flowing in the opposite direction to electrons; that made my head spin..

[loppylugs 8,429]

Didn't mean I'm being persuaded on flat earth. Just meant that I think its proponents should have their ideas looked at objectively. Some of the comments on YT are just plain mean. Probably written by some idiot in momma's basement who needs to get a job, an education, and an open mind.

A good debate on a topic can be interesting if somebody doesn't start throwing personal insults. Always seems to me as if they are too dumb to think about the ideas and respond with some good observations as you just did.

Just noted your post, Colly. The electron and holes theory. Left me in a flat spin. Valve theory I could just about manage. Never liked transistors much anyway. Too easy to fry with a VOM.

Yes, Michael it is a shame that families can no longer enjoy the experience of a trip to the flight deck. I worked for Air Canada in Toronto back in the 70s and often got the opportunity for a trip up there for me and the kids. Another good life experience ruined by idiots.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

Steve, I still can't get my head around, "holes" moving through solid material...LOL

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

It's quite an experience Micheal. mine was on a 747, the skipper took me through how everything works, and what a sight, Northern Territory coming into Queensland and the Pacific Ocean in the distance, all at sunrise!! All at 35,000ft.

[Ayupmeducks 1,730]

I looked at one in particular Dave, I think it was called "NASA Lying To us" well the NASA acronym has been changed to Never A Same Answer, and they do lie quite often, but how can you lie on live videos backed up with easily tracked location of ISS. With a satellite tracker and NASA live video from ISS, it's pretty conclusive we are not watching a movie set up from somewhere on earth.

Then there are the mathematical charts used in conjunction with a sextant, which will not work on a flat earth set up.

But then for centuries, "round earth" people were laughed at and ridiculed.

[MapperleyMan 122]

Good to see you back, John. Haven't seen a post from you in a while.

I tend to trust so called science very little, but they do get a few things right. :-). Not sure whether the sea level thing is one of them though. I suppose the jury is still out on the old pos - neg thing though. I suppose someone has to think they've explained everything even if it doesn't stand up.

I've been seeing a lot of stuff on You tube lately about a revival in the flat earth theory. While many of the comments are just ridicule and foul language, surely we owe it to ourselves to research such ideas oblectively. Btw. I'm not a flat earther just using it as an example.

Just examining my response to flat earth there. Peer pressure? Folks generally think flat earthers are crazy so no one wants to be thought of as one.

Does seem to be an observable fact though, that if you have a glass of water with ice in it. It does not overflow as the ice melts.

Fill your glass up to the top. Then put the ice in it. Bet you it overflows.

[ValuerJim 277]

An interesting topic, irrespective of your belief in the significance of global warming. There's a lot of ice about which isn't presently afloat. The south pole is at an altitude of around 2700m, of which all but 100m is the ice cap. Keeps me awake at night.

[loppylugs 8,429]

And then!! We get into all the debates about NASA and whether or not the moonshots took place. There are some pretty compelling arguments that they didn't. Then they tell us they lost the tapes or some likely story! Really! Would we take such poor care of the records one of the most momentous events in history?

Once again, i'm not suggesting I know the answers, but a lot of things don't add up.

Maybe we need a conspiracy thread. Now that might get really contentious. :-)

[loppylugs 8,429]

MM. Yes, it would definitely overflow if the glass were already full and you dropped some ice in.

But what we are looking at is a hypothetical glass that is already full with water and some ice. The question being, would that glass overflow as the ice melted?

[catfan 14,793]

We were taught at school many moons ago that, "The weight of the object equals the weight of the water displaced", i.e. as in ships etc.

Useless piece of knowledge I know, but there you are.

So take the weight of all the shipping out. Then the oceans will lower, yes ?

Loppy. Bring the conspiracy thread on !