Anything Political

[DJ360 6,730]

Actually, he made it pretty clear.

 

Stay home.

 

Only go out if you have to for work

Or for food,

Or for Meds.

Or for exercise once a day.

Do not visit friends, or even family who do not live with you.

Do not congregate outside.

Exercise alone, or with someone who lives with you.

 

Makes perfect sense to me and is what I've been doing for weeks.  Just a pity everyone else wasn't.

[PeverilPeril 3,283]

I have never liked Boris or his style of politics but I have to say that he presented the message well. We are all between a rock and a hard place and so is he. He had to show firmness without panicking the nation. It was not possible to give much detail in 5 min - the attention span limit of most when listening to politicians. All situations cannot be covered during this unprecedented crisis. Some things will have to be dealt with as they occur, until solutions are found and systems put in place. We need to be patient and to stay calm.

I'm lucky to have a big garden where I am busy growing food.

[nonnaB 4,895]

9 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Actually, he made it pretty clear.

 

Stay home.

 

Only go out if you have to for work

Or for food,

Or for Meds.

Or for exercise once a day.

Do not visit friends, or even family who do not live with you.

Do not congregate outside.

Exercise alone, or with someone who lives with you.

 

Makes perfect sense to me and is what I've been doing for weeks.  Just a pity everyone else wasn't.

 

Thats exactly what we've been doing now for 2 weeks.

[Brew 5,419]

7 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Actually, he made it pretty clear.

 

Stay home.

 

Only go out if you have to for work

Or for food,

Or for Meds.

Or for exercise once a day.

Do not visit friends, or even family who do not live with you.

Do not congregate outside.

Exercise alone, or with someone who lives with you.

 

Makes perfect sense to me and is what I've been doing for weeks.  Just a pity everyone else wasn't.

 

Fine in the round but how do we travel to work and maintain SD?

Who HAS to go to work if they are not part of the essential services?

Why only close retailers? are factories and their workers immune?

 

"We are asking the businesses and premises and other venues outlined above not to open for trade from close of trade 23 March 2020.     
The Government will look again at these measures in three weeks, and relax them if the evidence shows this is possible.   
Compliance" (UK/GOV) ….    

 

Asking?

 

The title of the instrument is - 'Further businesses and premises to close' and outlines those businesses that must close. There is no mention of industrial businesses, it's all retail and leisure.

 

These are the exemptions:

 

Supermarkets and other food shops, health shops, pharmacies including non-dispensing pharmacies, petrol stations, bicycle shops, home and hardware shops, laundrettes and dry cleaners, bicycle shops, garages, car rentals, pet shops, corner shops, newsagents, post offices, and banks. (UK/GOV)

 

So we can wander down to Halfords, have stroll round before we pop into Dominoes for a pizza then collect our dry cleaning before dropping into the newsagents for The Sun and a copy of the Radio Times...

 

I applaud his efforts but it's not enough in my opinion. The WHO has said Covid-19 is accelerating, we need to do more.

[DJ360 6,730]

I still think that our beloved leaders missed a number of opportunities to deal better with this situation, but I won't labour the point.

 

However.. seeing that execrable freak Cummings looking, as my very eloquent Grandfather would have said... 'Like a Bag of Shit Tied in the Middle'.. literally running away from No.10 ..speaks volumes..

 

It also demands explanation, since Cummings has no doubt been continuing to lurk in the No.10 shadows like some Witch's Familiar and should therefore be in isolation along with the rest of them until he proves himself clear.. or goes down with the ship.

 

This country was already in the grip of a severely incompetent and dangerous bunch of crooks since the election.  We are now all but rudderless.

[jonab 1,644]

As an outsider looking in on the UK leadership I find the above post from DJ360 highly apt. That clip of Cummings literally running away from Downing Street even caught the news channels here

[Brew 5,419]

10 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I still think that our beloved leaders missed a number of opportunities to deal better with this situation, but I won't labour the point.

 

Amongst all the bull and bluster I don't think Boris has ever claimed omniscience.

Maybe he could have done better  but I don't think his actions were any better or worse than other leaders.

I do think we need to do more as infections ramp up but he's following experts advice and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Stuart.C 491]

So what would be the missed opportunities?

[DJ360 6,730]

-There is very strong evidence that Govt took far too long to get on with purchasing PPE, and organising extra ventilators.

-Govt. clearly does not have sufficient testing kits.. yet other European countries are testing hugely more, which seems to show that kits are.. or were available to be had.

-Govt. clearly 'cocked up' over participation in an EU wide scheme for distributing ventilators and other supplies.

-Govt still seems to be playing politics with people's lives.  For e.g., giving 'The Nod' to known backers such as Dyson and JCB to start developing lashed up ventilators while seemingly ignoring offers from companies already in the business of the manufacture and supply of Ventilators.

[HSR 286]

Listen to a lot of Britsh late night & early morning radio, about three weeks ago, people phoning  in from Italy were pleading that Britain should crack down.

 

At the initial outbreak other countries were envious of our experts, the seeding policy was ditched within four days..in the very long term, globally they may 

proved correct.

 

Global trade seems to take preference over human life,

I'm a simple soul but not checking people returning to the country was madness.

 

 

 

[Brew 5,419]

 

Sorry Col I have to disagree. The UK has the fourth highest number of tests per million people in Europe and the fifth largest number of tests globally.

 

Italy lockdown date - Mar 9th

UK lockdown date - Mar 23rd That would suggest we had lockdown long before the UK situation became as serious as it did in Italy before they went into lockdown.

 

Other European countries doing 'hugely' more? I think not...

 

Number of tests to March 26th:

       Italy -        23345 tests

       UK   -        13525

      Austria -  2120

      Finland -  130

 

Number of test to February 26th:

 

        Italy: 9,462 tests, 

        UK: 7,132 

        France: 762 tests  

       Austria: 321 tests, 

Only South Korea and Italy have performed more tests. I hardly think we are lagging.

Italy announced on Feb 26th it would stop testing except for those who show symptoms

 

Positive results:

Italy        5%

UK           0.2%

France    2.2%

I do agree the Dyson deal is suspicious. Developing a new design when there are existing manufacturers certainly smacks of cronyism however if Dyson come up with a better machine at a reasonable price then the  deal will be vindicated - we shall see.

[HSR 286]

Why has Charlie, Boris and more not simply, if showing symptoms, gone into isolation? These tests could have been used on our brave frontline staff.

 

Is it still possible to get tested privately for £350? if so, isn't this Profiteering?

 

[Brew 5,419]

As far as I'm aware they have and are working remotely.

I have no idea nor have I heard of private testing but if true why is it profiteering? I can't see it's any different to going private for dentists etc. i.e root canal NHS £79 - private £800.

[HSR 286]

Brew..I won't be drawn, I will let that bad fart hang...

 

Just to educate you, Boris & Charlie both had tests...seems a waste to me.

 

The private tests are a fact..at least, up to a week ago, my daughter knows 2 people that took them.

 

As for the Dentist comparison....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[siddha 825]

Men,

We are where we are and we can wrangle to the end of time about the what and how of all kinds of situations.

To date there is no doubt that irresponsible capitalism coupled to an archaic electoral system designed to work with only two contenders has put the country in a mess. The existing services are fine if you are in the exploitative minority and have the estates to wander around and the resources to deploy as you would wish .

No good moaning about a corrupt world which we have allowed to develop.

We need to scrap ALL that has led to where we are and replace it with something that is equitable and effective.

 

[Brew 5,419]

4 hours ago, HSR said:

Brew..I won't be drawn, I will let that bad fart hang...

 

Not too sure what that even means HSR

 

Just to educate you, Boris & Charlie both had tests...seems a waste to me.

 

Thank you for educating me. Both had symptoms and were tested, the tests were positive why is that a waste? are they not entitled to be tested and treated? Does being part of the establishment mean they should just wander about not knowing they are likely to be spreading the illness?? Considering who they are I would assume there is no burden on the NHS and they are paying for their treatment.

 

The private tests are a fact..at least, up to a week ago, my daughter knows 2 people that took them.

 

And your point is?

 

As for the Dentist comparison....

 

Yes... and?

 

 

[PeverilPeril 3,283]

The procurement and manufacture of ventilators in large volume and short lead time must be the subject of much debate. Maybe using existing manufacturers with existing sophisticated designs would be quite limiting. Their work force and facilities may not be on a scale to deal with high volume in the short term. Dyson are on a bigger scale all together and would be in a position to switch production to produce something requiring similar facilities.  A bog standard design using a lot of existing components is all that is needed during this emergency. The existing ventilators are likely to have  all the bells and whistles and designed and built to last and to impress the health service customers. 

[Brew 5,419]

1 hour ago, siddha said:

Men,

We are where we are and we can wrangle to the end of time about the what and how of all kinds of situations.

To date there is no doubt that irresponsible capitalism coupled to an archaic electoral system designed to work with only two contenders has put the country in a mess. The existing services are fine if you are in the exploitative minority and have the estates to wander around and the resources to deploy as you would wish .

No good moaning about a corrupt world which we have allowed to develop.

 

 You just did siddha 

 

1 hour ago, siddha said:

We need to scrap ALL that has led to where we are and replace it with something that is equitable and effective.

 

I would tend to agree, what would you suggest?

Various nations have tried Communism, Fascism,  Democracy, Theocracy, Monarchies, and everything in between. None of them seems better than our present system.

The reason (I believe), we do not have something more equitable and effective is because there is nothing or at least nothing we have tried so far. 

Complaining that the rich control everything is peeing into the wind. It has been that way since time immemorial and will not change until  human nature changes.

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

Kakistocracy is what the world has at present, has always had and most probably always will have.  

[Brew 5,419]

That I can agree with...

[LizzieM 9,510]

10 hours ago, Brew said:

 

I do agree the Dyson deal is suspicious. Developing a new design when there are existing manufacturers certainly smacks of cronyism however if Dyson come up with a better machine at a reasonable price then the  deal will be vindicated - we shall see.

And I agree with the above too.  
My son sourced 2000 brand new Ventilators in China several weeks ago.  He contacted an NHS Procurement Manager who said he would get back to my son, who never let up and kept on to this chap.  They never made a decision.  Now it’s too late, the available machines have all gone.  I was talking to my son a couple of days ago about it and, as he said, James Dyson will make millions out of this project and will not have the machines produced  in time. 

[siddha 825]

Cats can rule!! 

OK by me but the local songbirds are all protesting.

[siddha 825]

4 hours ago, Brew said:

would tend to agree, what would you suggest?

Various nations have tried Communism, Fascism,  Democracy, Theocracy, Monarchies, and everything in between. None of them seems better than our present system.

The reason (I believe), we do not have something more equitable and effective is because there is nothing or at least nothing we have tried so far. 

Complaining that the rich control everything is peeing into the wind. It has been that way since time immemorial and will not change until  human nature changes.

 

Just because we have not arrived at something better doesn't mean we should stop looking and trying. If we keep doing the same we keep getting the same. I would think we could shift to a more benign model of capitalism that is geared in such a way that merit and hard work is generously rewarded in a person's lifetime and where value is given to essential roles/functions as well as invention and drive.  All land including whatever lies beneath is owned by everyone alive in that country who works and therefore contributes. Limit inherited wealth. I could go on...………...  

[radfordred 6,284]

Looks like Europe is waking up, the Italians are burning the EU flag “Ci salviamo da soli” they’ll be next following us smart Britons, there will be no EU after this pandemic. 

[Brew 5,419]

1 hour ago, siddha said:

Just because we have not arrived at something better doesn't mean we should stop looking and trying.

 

I completely agree and we as a society have been searching and advocating various systems since we left the hunter/gatherer system behind. The present setup, whilst far from perfect, has lowered infant mortality rates, increased life span, continually raised living standards etc. Compared to out fathers and our grandfathers we live, even those on benefits, a life of almost unimaginable abundance and luxury. How many here had grandparents who owned a car, owned their own house, went abroad for holidays, had more consumer goods than you can shake a stick at, had a university education?...

Yes it's right we seek to  improve things but lets not forget what we have and bite the hand that feeds us.

 

2 hours ago, siddha said:

All land including whatever lies beneath is owned by everyone alive in that country who works and therefore contributes. Limit inherited wealth. I could go on...………...  

 

How would that work? Community ownership of mineral rights? Who gets to decide? Who decides land usage? Councils have the say at the moment about what is built on or extracted from the land for and on behalf of the people. What do you propose? 

Limiting inherited wealth, hmmm. I may be wrong but I have the impression you mean the rich and landed gentry should be limited on the amount they pass down. The inheritance tax does just that and at the same time gives the hoi polloi a free pass below £350,000 which is hardly fair or equitable.

There is a clearly a lot of pressure to hang on to and protect inheritances of the average citizen. It's also one of my pet peeves. Why shouldn't our life saving go to looking after us in our dotage? How is it fair that most want the state to foot the bill so they inherit their parents estate?