Anything Political

[Beekay 5,152]

That would be getting to the bottom of the problem Jill. Not political I know.

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

He's asked the crem to play music by Ennio Morricone: the theme from A Fistula of Dollars.

[Brew 5,420]

46 minutes ago, loppylugs said:

Look up ALL the verses which address marriage and try to reach a balanced conclusion on what actually does it say

 

And that's the whole crux of the matter. Are we to take what it says at face value, what someone else thinks it says, or what fits most comfortably with out own predilections? Each may be a different interpretation and all can just as easily be different to the original intent and meaning and therefore wrong.

[loppylugs 8,429]

As I noted most of it is pretty black and white.  I only chose marriage as 

one example.  The same passage tells me I am to love my wife as Christ loved the church.  He gave His life for the church.  If I love her like that her obedience will follow.  I would never tell her to do something that would harm her.

Naturally there might be differing viewpoints but where meanings are quite clear there should be no major problems.

There will always be those who disagree.  Usually because it impacts their own pre-conceived ideas.  They will perform Biblical gymnastics to make it say something that suits them.

I think it may have been Mark Twain who said words to the effect of.  'It's not the things I don't understand in the Bible that bother me  it's the things I do understand.'

If we consider ALL the references to a topic the intent should become reasonably clear.  That takes work and most don't want to do that so they take one verse that fits their bias and that's it.   That is often how the cults get started.

[DJ360 6,730]

I just wanted to throw something in here which I meant to say last night but got side tracked.

 

I see a BIG difference between 'Religion' and 'Faith'.  I do believe that many people have genuine faith in something spiritual.  Some notion of a personal relationship with God, or similar.  I don't share this Faith.. but I think I can understand it.  This is why I am convinced that faith can only be arrived at on a personal level and cannot be imposed.

 

Religion on the other hand.. smacks to me of the triumph of ritual/prescription and mostly organised, prescriptive hierarchies.. over true faith. 

 

Religion is why many of my Catholic friends freely admit to being pursued by guilt all their lives.  It is also why some decide to blow up others.  And oddly, Religion was why I lost what embryonic faith I might have had as a young lad.

 

 

[loppylugs 8,429]

Amen!  Col.  Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

Religion tends to be rote little reality to it.  That's why the Pharisees hated Jesus so much.  He called 'em out as religious hypocrites and used some of his stongesr words on them.  "Whitewashed tombs, children of  the devil etc.

Faith changes folks from the inside out.  Take the apostle Paul.  He described himself as a Pharisee of the Pharisees.  He persecuted and murdered some Christians by his own admission.  His experience on the Damascus road, Acts 8, changed him forever.

[Oztalgian 3,298]

Taken from one of the best films of all time.... Monty Pythons' Life of Brian and I think it sums up this discussion.

Strangely enough it was shown of TV again a couple of nights ago 

Brian ….. "Look you've got it all wrong. You don't need to follow me. You don't need to follow anybody. You've got to think for yourselves. You're all individuals"

Crowd, in unison.... "Yes we're all individuals"

or

The Irish comedian Dave Allen's closing line "May your god go with you"

[ValuerJim 277]

You left out the punchline, Oz. After the mob cry 'we're all individuals', a lone voice shouts 'I'm not!'

[loppylugs 8,429]

I often got a laugh out of the Pythons, but I wouldn't get my theology from there.   

[AfferGorritt 868]

Great line, Valuer Jim! Very clever!

[radfordred 6,284]

Marvellous news, Boris back to work tomorrow to lead us out of this lockdown, welcome back Boris 

[DJ360 6,730]

Well he led us in rather successfully judging by the figures...

 

I can't wait me...

[Oztalgian 3,298]

This is doing the rounds down under and if it is true it must rank as one of the greatest comebacks of all time.

Stupid Question...

Excellent Answer !!

 General Sir Peter John Cosgrove, AK, MC, (born 28 July 1947) is a retired senior Australian Army officer and the 26th and current Governor-General of Australia

He was sworn in on 28 March 2014, 

and made a Knight of the Order of Australia the same day

    General Cosgrove was interviewed on TV by Leigh Sales from the ABC.

Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you have to love this! 

This is one of the best comeback lines of all time.

This is a portion of an ABC interview between a female journalist Leigh Sales and General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military Headquarters. 

 

LEIGH SALES:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

LEIGH SALES:

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, 
they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

LEIGH SALES:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline

before they even touch a firearm. 

LEIGH SALES:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers.

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

          The broadcast went silent for 46 seconds and when it returned, the interview was over.

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

I am no advocate of firearms but I cannot argue with his logic!

[Rob.L 1,090]

If only it was true, and not a made-up quote.

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/equipped-quip/

[Oztalgian 3,298]

Thanks Rob.L  I have added that site as reference

Apologies to General Cosgrove and Leigh Sales

[benjamin1945 16,160]

Booing at Posters of Winston Churchill....................we actually did it on Bestwood estate 1950/1  during the General Election,,,

          Also outside Catholic Church in Bulwell...........we are making progress or are we ?

Remember a Teacher at Padstow school getting all the Catholics in the class to stand up.....anyone else recall this sort of thing ?

[Brew 5,420]

3 hours ago, benjamin1945 said:

Remember a Teacher at Padstow school getting all the Catholics in the class to stand up.....anyone else recall this sort of thing ?

 

Catholics had to attend morning assembly but before the prayers and hymns had to leave the hall.

[Jill Sparrow 10,307]

At Manning, the few Catholic girls among us went into a separate room with Barmy Colleen, the Irish maths teacher (and I use that term so loosely that it is about to disarticulate totally) when the rest of us went into assembly. They did not join us until Notices, at the end.

 

I could never persuade any of them to tell me what they did during that time but the obligation to spend 30 minutes per day with Barmy Colleen in addition to suffering the slings and arrows ( for which read, basically, anything that wasn't nailed down) during what were risibly known as her maths lessons, would have persuaded even the Pope to join the Moonies.

 

 

[Brew 5,420]

I have words to describe the unholy, catastrophic incompetent and and cynical way in which our Govt have so far handled this disaster... but I don't want to use them in polite company..

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/06/the-uk-governments-changing-coronavirus-strategy

 

Unholy,  catastrophic, cynical and incompetent? And you offer a Guardian article as evidence Col? It seems to me there is nothing in it that deserves any of those epithets. Most are quotes from scientists (SAGE), non government sources, and Johnson and Hancock's quotes are entirely reasonable and un-controversial. 

 

I think your hatred (yes I do think the word is justified), of Johnson in particular and the Tories in general is clouding your judgement. He may well be all those things you say he is but, like Churchill, may be the right man in the right place at the right time - history will tell.

 

His personal proclivities have little bearing on his ability to deal with the most serious situation this country has faced since the war.

I've said before he is in a no-win situation and you are I think in a minority in denigrating his actions so far.

Labour and the other oppositions are remarkably quiet at the moment other than demanding an exit strategy. They, like everyone else, have no answers, no brilliant plan to solve and save the situation. 

 

Instead they offer this:-

 

"The Labour Party has a serious and important role in this crisis in working with the Government and holding it to account.

We released our plan to protect people’s wages, welfare and wellbeing. 

We will also support our communities and create opportunities for our members to organise safe and supportive community-led responses, in line with official public health advice.

Our priority is the health of our members and staff, and contributing to the collective effort to protect public health. Local parties must follow government advice, and health and safety guidelines, in relation to this outbreak."

 

Read it carefully, the rhetoric doesn't actually say anything, it has no substance it's just empty words

[philmayfield 6,142]

Going back to Catholicism  - my company had a subsidiary in Dublin. The two directors were fully indoctrinated Catholics. When they came over here they would make the sign of the cross when they passed a church of any denomination and they finished most of their sentences with the words 'please God'. If they were over here on a Friday they would have obtained dispensation from their priest to be absolved from eating fish. They always had steak! That was back in the 80's. I'm sure all that dogma has been swept away now.

[radfordred 6,284]

Boy we can clap, clap for Boris 

[DJ360 6,730]

22 hours ago, Brew said:

This should be in the politics topic  but I'll just say I absolutely disagree! Corbyn, was as far left as it's possible to go and was credited with being so by more than one political commentator:

 

You can do better than this Jim.

 

First of all....  define 'Far Left'.  I'd argue that 'Far Left' is way out there in the realms of One Party States. which actually go so far round to the left, that they meet the Far Right coming back.... Corbyn was never anywhere near that.

 

As for 'political commentators'.  Well we all know that Corbyn was hated by the established press and the established political order because he was perceived as a threat to their dominance.  This had nothng to do with his actual policies. which were pretty much in line with Traditional Labour. unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

 

Corbyn has always operated within the context of a Parliamentary Democracy.  He has never, to my knowledge, advocated a 'One Party State', or the overthrow of Parliament. ( In fact.. it is the Far Right and the rabid Brexiteers who have a problem with Democracy and Parliament. which is why we saw headlines such as 'Enemies of the People' from the execrable Daily Mail and Johnson lyng to the Queen.)

 

Also. as I said before.. none of Corbyn's proposed policies were even remotely 'Far Left', and many, such as re-nationalising the Railways were hugely popular. 

 

Corbyn's spending and borrowing plans were pretty tame.. especially in light of current developments. Yet Johnson engaged in a 'Spending Proposal Bidding War' with Corbyn.. in order to 'buyt' the Red Wal constituencies.. and of course Sunak has since comitted far more to funding the war on CV.

 

AFAIAC, it was Corbyn''s inability to properly articulate his views, and his dithering over Brexit which cost him the election.  Neither are evidence.. much less proof.. of a 'Hard Left' agenda.

[DJ360 6,730]

On 5/7/2020 at 3:14 PM, Brew said:

Labour and the other oppositions are remarkably quiet at the moment other than demanding an exit strategy. They, like everyone else, have no answers, no brilliant plan to solve and save the situation. 

 

 

They have no power.  The Great British Public handed it all to a bunch of entitled Toffs.

 

I will say that when it comes to managing situations and expectations.. Sunak stands head and shoulders above the rest of his bunch.. but he also knows that he will be pulling back all those billions one day.. that will be interesting....

 

Johnson remains a blustering waffling fraud.  He's maintaining his track record very well.

 

 

[Brew 5,420]

Define 'far left'. Simple Google to Wikipedia or any dictionary and there is no mention of one party states, it means extreme. Your definition differs from that which most  would use.

All political commentators hated Corbyn? Do you not think that's a little far fetched?

Hated by the established order? They really didn't need to waste their energy it's fairly obvious Corbyn was self destructing by advocating policies that anyone over the age of 16 with any sense would reject.  

 

'He  operated within the context of a Parliamentary Democracy'. Of course he did, he had no choice. 

 

 'It is the Far Right and the rabid Brexiteers who have a problem with Democracy and Parliament'. A scenario i don't recognise. The argument re; Brexit has gone and we both know there was fault on both sides. Raking over the ashes serves no purpose other than to draw attention away from the subject.

 

His spending plans were by any measure outrageous, billions upon billions on unspecified and uncosted pie in the sky schemes. At least Johnson targeted his spending.

The comparison with today's pandemic spending is totally different. One was a deliberate policy that would cripple the economy and today the government has no choice.

 

Sunak has since comitted far more to funding the war on CV. Would you prefer he didn't?

 

The billions we are spending now will probably have a knock on effect that may prove to be a gift to the detractors and yah boo merchants further down the line.

 

 it was Corbyn''s inability to properly articulate his views, and his dithering over Brexit which cost him the election. No Col it was his far left policies which no one believed in and no one voted for.

 

They have no power.  Does that preclude them from having an opinion or suggesting alternatives?