Anything Political

[DJ360 6,730]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:46 PM, Rob.L said:

There’s certainly a lot of chatter recently about the ennoblement of Baron Evgeny Lebedev of Hampton and Siberia, with MI5’s apparent concerns about the family links to Putin being overruled by Johnson, together with the news that the Italian secret service was monitoring what happened when Johnson attended parties at former KGB Colonel Alexander Lebedev’s Italian mansion.

 

Channel 4 now..

Dispatches is about Johnson's friendship with the Lebedevs.

[DJ360 6,730]

20 hours ago, Brew said:

Quite why we're arguing semantics I'm not sure,

 

I don't think we are arguing Jim... We are having one of our customary polite discussions..

 

20 hours ago, Brew said:

I stand with diatribe.

 

I'll give you 'diatribe', in the more historical usage, of a 'lengthy discourse', but since the bulk of his piece is an attempt to explain what is happening/has recently happened, in Russia, I'm sticking with 'analysis'.

 

20 hours ago, Brew said:

Which bit did you think was me denying Putin was acting like a fascist?

 

We may be at 'cross purposes' here, but I understood this:

On 6/27/2023 at 12:26 AM, Brew said:

Lots of jingoism to engender a mind worm and blame Fascists - 

 

...not as you specifically denying that Putin is a fascist, but as you dismissing Snyder's employment of fascism as a factor in his analysis.

 

I should emphasise at this point that I too don't agree with everything Snyder says, but I find the piece interesting, and a useful contribution to the rather more simplistic 'analyses' presented by major news channels.

It's a complex topic, with a complex background and a continuing level of complexity.

 

For e.g.  If, as alleged by Lukashenko, Prigozhin is now in Belarus, presumably alone or with a very small band of his group, then that would be, in my view, a potentially suicidal move on the part of Prigozhin.  The power balance between Putin and Lukashenko is rather difficult to pin down, but if I were Prigozhin, I'm not sure I'd trust Lukashenko to 'protect' me.

[DJ360 6,730]

P.S.

23 hours ago, Brew said:

Which bit did you think was me denying Putin was acting like a fascist? and  could we not also make a case for many governments around the world that meet the same criteria, not just the UK?

 

 

Well of course we could.  Those who are openly aligned with Russia for a start.. so Iran, Syria, and a number of former 'Soviet' Republics',  North Korea, Hungary under Orban, India under Modi, Turkey under Erdogan etc.. are all moving in that direction though still at least holding elections... of a sort. Many other countries around the World no doubt qualify too.

 

But my point is that most of the World has been determinedly UNdemocratic pretty much forever, whereas the UK has a long history of Parliamentary Democracy, which for many around the World was long held as something to aspire to.

 

I contend that our Democracy, our Freedom of Association and our generally 'rules based' Political system have been damaged by the likes of Johnson and his cronies..and that the threat of further damage continues.

 

Johnson demonstrated his disdain for Parliament on countless occasions, and went on to take arguably more 'liberties' with the 'Honours System' than any predecessor. In addition, we've seen many of his cronies effectively 'caught with their pants down', but able to stick two fingers up to the electorate and carry on regardless.

 

Add in that Johnson sought to suppress lawful protest, deliberately removed the Independence of the Electoral Commission and that both he and his cronies/successors have utterly failed to  properly control/regulate the activities of privatised services including Water, Energy, Transport etc., etc. and we are left with not only broken public services on all fronts, but a broken economy, a broken legal system and a severely damaged political system which has reduced us from an admired and aspirational 'ideal', to an international laughing stock.

[Brew 5,420]

7 hours ago, DJ360 said:

I don't think we are arguing Jim... We are having one of our customary polite discussions..

 

Col, I use the word in the sense of 'a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory', we never descend into 'quarrelling' which is different  definition entirely  

 

7 hours ago, DJ360 said:

not as you specifically denying that Putin is a fascist, but as you dismissing Snyder's employment of fascism as a factor in his analysis.

 

As you point out, I overstretched the meaning of jingoism and applied my own connotations. I was trying to make the point  Snyder is using a Trump technique of lies, misinformation (fake news), plus repetition. Theses are traits well known to fascists, used to raise consciousness and enforce the view that the enemy is at the gate.

That, his suppositions and lack of checkable facts, left me somewhat less than convinced he's anymore plausible than I read elsewhere.

 

3 hours ago, DJ360 said:

...on to take arguably more 'liberties' with the 'Honours System' than any predecessor. In addition, we've seen many of his cronies effectively 'caught with their pants down', but able to stick two fingers up to the electorate and carry on regardless.

 

The honours system has been a bone of contention for years. Harold Wilson springs to mind with the Lilac list. Lloyd George cash for honours, Tony Blair cash for honours, Cameron  cronyism, the blessed Boris and his dad  etc...

 

Agreed public services and utilities are on their arses in many cases and yes the Tories are not doing well sorting it out. But let's not forget Labour must shoulder a share of the blame. It was Blair that not only started the PFI schemes (present value of 57 billion), that is making millions for the financiers, he also opened the door to let the Americans into the NHS, a service that is arguably now only middle ranked among the worlds health services (from being a world leader).

The Tories of course took covert privatisation to a whole new level.

At the moment 58% of mental health care is now in the hands of the private sector. 

[LizzieM 9,510]

Listening to Talk Radio this afternoon I heard a recording of President Biden say that Putin appears to be losing the war on Iraq.  Errr, this man is leader of the Free World …….. 

[Brew 5,420]

What you must realise Lizzie is that Iraq is a lot easier to say than Ukraine when your face in full of botox and virtually immoveable

 

[loppylugs 8,429]

I actually find myself being sorry for the guy.  Like a majority of Americans I feel he is no longer competant to hold the presidency.  Politics isn't even the issue.

[philmayfield 6,141]

Worry not. Trump will return! 

[Brew 5,420]

Poor old Biden, old being the operative word. I'm sure he could only reach the top spot in the US due to the weird electoral system they have - and oodles of cash.

It seems he has only one task, to be a talking head - pity he can't even get that right...

[notty ash 371]

His only task was to beat Trump.

[Brew 5,420]

Good point, perhaps if they had chosen a candidate with more animation the result would not have been quite so close.

[DJ360 6,730]

In other news, serial fraudster and abuser of privilege Robert Jenrick, MP for Newark and Minister for Immigration, reached a new low..even for him..this week.

He ordered the painting over of murals depicting Mickey Mouse etc., at a CHILDREN'S asylum Centre, claiming that they are 'too welcoming'. These are CHILDREN this utter arse is victimising.

Whatever your views on immigration, you would have to be a special kind of cruel and heartless not to be sickened by Jenrick's views.

He makes me sick.

[HSR 286]

I always thought that you had to post 200 or over 250 posts before you could read, the formally hidden Political thread.

I assume this site is now under new ownership?

 

No pics, maps etc.

Is this due to copyright?

Very uninspiring ...

[Cliff Ton 10,468]

The 250 limit was/is not on the Political thread, it's on the Social Functions thread.

 

Ownership hasn't changed.

[DJ360 6,730]

5 hours ago, HSR said:

I always thought that you had to post 200 or over 250 posts before you could read, the formally hidden Political thread.

I assume this site is now under new ownership?

 

No pics, maps etc.

Is this due to copyright?

Very uninspiring ...

 

The 'political' thread as you call it, is open to all who have posting rights. I.E all signed up members.

You are free to post,  comment, agree, disagree or add whatever images you wish, within the general limits of the site.

You are also free to ignore it.

[HSR 286]

17 hours ago, DJ360 said:

 

You are free to post,  comment, agree, disagree or add whatever images you wish, within the general limits of the site.

You are also free to ignore it.

 

Well, that's very soapbox..clearly as a pleb, without even moderator rights, you are being given a free reign to spout your opinions.. Why? 

 

I know the Political thread was originally buried..why tell lies.

 

DJ..it's obviously clear you are the dominant political force.

When I asked you a genuine question, why did you spit your dummy out..?

 

 

 

 

[DJ360 6,730]

5 hours ago, HSR said:

 

Well, that's very soapbox..clearly as a pleb, without even moderator rights, you are being given a free reign to spout your opinions.. Why? 

 

I know the Political thread was originally buried..why tell lies.

 

DJ..it's obviously clear you are the dominant political force.

When I asked you a genuine question, why did you spit your dummy out..?

 

 

 

 

1. HSR. You are clearly determined to pick a fight. I don't call you names. Please do me the same courtesy.

 

2. Despite your (deliberate?)

misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread, it is open to ALL, to 'spout their political opinons', to use, or ignore as is their wish. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD AND TOPIC ON THIS SITE.

If you disagree  with what I post, you are free to ignore it, or to post a rebuttal/ counter argument. Your choice.

 

3.Please don't accuse me of lying. That will not go well for you. This thread was never 'buried'. First it did not exist. Then it did...  JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD AND TOPIC ON THIS SITE.

 

4. There is NO dominant political force on this site. As I am getting very tired of pointing out, we ALL have equal rights to post, or not, in ANY thread.

 

5. The only question I recall you asking was about the SWP. It was not genuine.. it was a clear provocation. And I did not 'spit my dummy out'. Why would I if I am, as you mistakenly assume, the bearer of special power, rights and privileges?

 

Please reflect on your post above.

 

 

[Brew 5,420]

HSR: Col is given a 'free rein to spout his opinions' for exactly the reasons you are, only he does so with more civility.

 

Recently there have been a couple of attacks on the validity of the politics thread, one enthusing the purity of  Nottingham only subjects. Make that so and the site will quickly fade into obscurity. Those who think along such pedantic lines might like to scan back and have a count up of Nottingham only posts.

 

There is only a finite number of members and thus a finite number of memories to be recalled before they become repetitive. Old memories can be enjoyable to read and many are, but many are geographically specific and have little relevance to the reader, unless they can associate it with their own.

 

The people here have opinions and interests on everything from the price of eggs to the creation and more, it's called having a life. To say they should not post off topic or controversial views here, but go elsewhere is pure censorship and nimbyism. 

Earlier I read someone say discussing politics leads to quarrelling and ill feeling - I wonder who's fault that is?

 

Sorry to burst any bubbles... err.. wait a minute, no I'm not...

[Hey Arnold 88]

11 hours ago, Brew said:

Earlier I read someone say discussing politics leads to quarrelling and ill feeling - I

 

My father always used to say "never discuss politics or religion in a pub, it only leads to fighting"

[benjamin1945 16,160]

TELL ME ABOUT IT ..........Arnold..........lol

[Cliff Ton 10,468]

And to repeat what has been said many times previously.........

 

If you aren't interested in the Politics thread, and you don't like it, just scroll past it and move on to the next thing.

[DJ360 6,730]

The post by HSR above is basically an incoherent mess. But, it includes at least 5 falsehoods,as well as name calling and a straightforward accusation of lying. All directed at me.

But basically it is yet another attempt to 'censor' this site and to block every member's abilty to discuss politics in a civilised way.

 

It's interesting, to me at least, that the only person who chose to attach a 'like' to that post, has an avatar which expresses a blatant political stance, whenever and wherever they post.

 

Double standards?

[Brew 5,420]

Col: DavidA  Although I don't agree with his politics, he's unashamedly a UKIP supporter and I see no problem with that.

However in many ways he practices what he preaches with regard to NS. his posts have more Nottingham related content than most.

 

Quite why politics is such a taboo subject on NS is beyond me. Mick2Me, you know, the guy that owns and pays for us to rant about anything and everything under the sun, actually started a political thread back in 2014, and went as far as creating a voting survey! (29 Respondents)! and some openly declaring their political affiliations. 

 

I don't have CT's skills at searching this site, but this link should take you there if interested:

 

https://nottstalgia.com/forums/topic/12478-nottstalgia-election-2014/?tab=comments#comment-239323

 

Perhaps people were more tolerant back in the days before woke...

 

 

 

[Beekay 5,152]

Would somebody kindly explain, in simple idiot proof terms, what 'Woke' means. Cos I ain't got a bloody clue !

Except when I  'woke' up at 6.00am to make a cup of tea. But I think that may be something different. And I'm not being flippant, honest.

[DJ360 6,730]

@Brew/Jim, I also disagree with David A's politics, but he's entitled to his view.

 

What I don't think he is entitled to do, is to support a post which calls me names, calls me a liar, makes false claims that I am somehow the beneficiary of preferential treatment and attempts to censor both my and others' right to discuss politics in a thread which was expressly created for that purpose and to prevent political controversy from 'diverting' other topics.

 

To adopt that position while advertising his own politics everywhere he posts is double standards in my view.

Or maybe I should change my avatar to read 'Tory Scum Out!'

That would go down well....

 

Thanks for the link to the previous thread. As I recall, sometime pre 2016, there was a whole section of political threads, mostly around Brexit. That of course suited certain people at the time. I also note reference to a qualifying number of posts . at that time...

It is possible that that restriction caused HSR some confusion.

 

However, before the present Politics thread was created by Kev (CliffTon), all of those old political threads disappeared, or were locked. Kev's thread has no special qualifying number of posts and is open to all members..just like all other threads/ topics.

There was a period when ALL discussion of politics was banned. However, there were those who insisted on dropping in little 'one liners', which were often offensive to me and others. But, any attempt to challenge such statements was met with accusations of 'making it political', when in fact it already was. That caused arguments...

Which is why Cliffton..quite correctly in my view, created the politics thread.

It seems to me that many of those who are so set against the politics thread, are not so much opposed to politics..as to my politics. But rather than either ignore my views, or create counter arguments, they would prefer to silence me.