Electric Cars & Scooters

[philmayfield 6,144]

Story to hear that Rog. I’ve been in your area quite a lot recently and I always drove carefully round the narrow lanes in case you were round the corner!

[plantfit 7,601]

I could still be around some corners Phil on one of my bike unless I ride between Bassingham and Carlton then I use the cycle/foot path

[plantfit 7,601]

16 minutes ago, PeverilPeril said:

The Penny farthing?

all rebuilt and looking good, too small for me to ride but does look good at the vintage country fairs, I tried to load a picture of the vintage bikes and the penny but the file size was too big, 

 

[plantfit 7,601]

no not sold the penny Peveril, take it along with two other vintage bikes around the vintage and country shows

 

[The Pianoman 1,535]

1 hour ago, PeverilPeril said:

Hmm.. £399 sounds ok. I'm looking at electrifying my fishing bike for about the same price.

I'm interested to know how you get on with that. I've seen them and I like the idea.

[plantfit 7,601]

Lincoln police issuing a ticket to an E scooter rider, no insurance, no helmet, riding on the road and riding on the pavement

[benjamin1945 16,161]

Lots of talk about the merits and de-merits of Electric Cars..........I'M Against them for reasons of cost mainly................However an even stronger reason ''Dawned'' on me yesterday...........Getting in my Car in a Car-Park as i opened the door and was taking my Jacket off before getting in  there was a loud 'Beep-Beep' from a car coming towards me...........i had a bit of ''Verbal'' with the driver...Leary git about 50.....

 

Then as he drove off i realised it was ''Electric'' and silent''......normally i would have heard it approaching............This made me think about people crossing the road or walking past a car that is reversing.........to say nothing of Animals on the road Cats and Birds etc.........that rely on hearing a Car approaching........reckon there will be lots and lots of problems.........

 

 

 

 

[The Pianoman 1,535]

I have been led to believe that they have sound generators on them, hybrids too, but I have never heard one. Had a lift in a new Kia electric thing the other week. It was noisier than my Rover 75!

[Cliff Ton 10,468]

And also electric parcel delivery vans which fly around at stupid speeds - even in the city centre - and you don't hear them coming.

 

Almost every parcel van you see will have some kind of bodywork damage, even if they're only a few months old. The drivers get carried away with the performance, but aren't actually good enough.

[MargieH 7,600]

@benjamin1945  is it possible that the driver who beeped you realised that you couldn’t hear his approach and knew he needed to let you know?  Just a thought ….

[benjamin1945 16,161]

Its possible @MargieH............but shouting 'TWAT'.........Didn't endear me to him......

[DJ360 6,730]

I was watching a prog about Electric Cars the other night.. Can't remember what it was, but one major issue they highlighted was how to get accessible charging points for all, especially in areas with no 'off street' parking. (As an aside to that and before I even start.. there are a couple of idiots round here who have driveways, but insist on keeping their battery cars on the street and training wires over the pavement to charge them. Surely illegal?

 

It seems that Govt.  as usual when confronted with something a bit difficult, have thrown it at Local Authorities to sort out, and of course they've decided that the actual installation will be done by a whole raft of Private Sector Companies,( nice little earner.. worth investigating who they are and how they landed the job) so that we can't even be sure that standards/methods will be uniform across the country.

 

They showed a street in the course of being 'adapted' for the installation of charging points.  Think 'Cable', but considerably worse.. as this isn't just a bit of fibre optic, it's a hefty power cable. The disruption could be immense and the 're-surfacing' of roads/sidewalks after the fact a shoddy afterthought..  And of course they had a representative of the Private installation company moaning about the inconvenience of the Planning process and lack of 'cooperation' from Local Authorities.  Same sort of Govt. tactic as 'ULEZ'.. A contentiouspopular issue, so throw it into the laps of Local Authorities and blame them if it goes 'pear shaped'.

Sorry.. bit political but you did ask...

 

In principle I'm in favour of Electric Cars, but there are numerous unsolved issues.  The noise/'hearing them coming' issue is one. The supply of the metals needed for batteries, and the environmental damage the exploration/extraction of them will cause is another.  And if we just shift the energy supply problem up the supply chain and keep on using fossil fuels to generate the electricity in the first place.. the whole exercise is pretty pointless...

[oldphil 331]

Over the coming years, it will be interesting to see the A & E records for injuries caused by e-bikes, e-scooters and e-cars for all the usual reasons. Poor levels of attention on the part of users and pedestrians will prevail in the statistics.

On the question of trailing cables on the pavement, some pedantic citizen will doubtless treat them as you would overhanging branches - cop them and chuck them in the owners garden.

I see a few round our estate on driveways, It wont be long before the bored Neanderthals take to roaming the streets at night with insulated bolt croppers. That's not incitement - Nottstalgia is populated exclusively by law-abiding sober-minded and even-handed people.

[DJ360 6,730]

It does amaze me that it seems any clown, with or without any form of licence or training, can get hold of an e-scooter, e-bike, or even an electric 'disabled' buggy, and charge around willy nilly. And of course 'e scooters' are illegal on public highways unless part of a Local Authority scheme. There's one idiot around here who has an 'eBike' that is clearly illegal, as he frequently far exceeds the 15 or so MPH legal limit on it. I just hope that if he must kill or injure someone..it's himself.

[Cliff Ton 10,468]

Everywhere in Nottingham the e-Idiots ride along any road in any direction without bothering about other traffic or road signs etc.

 

They work on the assumption that everyone else will get out of their way. I'm amazed there haven't (so far) been many serious injuries or deaths.

[plantfit 7,601]

The only electric cars we should be having

 

 

 

Rog

[loppylugs 8,429]

If the climate clowns ever try to force me to own an electric car that will be the day I quit driving even though I was an electrician. 

[DJ360 6,730]

Why do you think they are 'clowns' Dave?

[loppylugs 8,429]

4 hours ago, DJ360 said:

Why do you think they are 'clowns' Dave?

Well,  they certainly aren't funny I will concede that.  The clown label is not my invention.  I think it would be because such individuals promote radical changes in our lives that even many respectable scientists reject, that human beings are warming the planet.  That, in fact, climate variation is cyclic.  Do you want to spend many thousands of pounds for an electric car that many experts say makes more pollution in it's manufacture and ultimate disposal?   Not to mention the many kw hours of power that have to be produced for something that is very debatable.  Such is foolishness.

[DJ360 6,730]

Morning Dave.

 

Your reply about 'Climate Clowns'..contains at least three assumptions...

 

1. That there are 'respectable' scientists who deny Climate Change.

2. That Climate Change is 'cyclical'.. and by implication.. 'normal'.

3. That 'Electric Cars' are more polluting than .. (presumably) Fossil Fuel powered cars.

 

On 1.  I know of no 'respectable' scientist who rejects Climate Change fact. Can you name any? I can find lots of stuff online to the contrary and can provide links if you want. As usual, most of the 'deniers' are from the far Right of the political spectrum and are either working on behalf of 'vested interests' around Car manufacture, Oil/Gas Coal production etc., or are just nuts.

Of course, there is a degree of debate and genuine uncertainty about exactly what mechanisms are involved..how things will progress, etc... but anyone denying the facts, in my view.. is either pushing

 an alternative agenda, or is literally 'in denial', presumably hoping it will all just 'go away'..

 

-Global Average Temperatures are rising, year on year, with numerous records being broken.

 

-Atmospheric CO2 is rising and contrary to the view of some, will not be mitigated by increased plant growth and absorption, because firstly, we are busy destroying what's left of our Rain Forests, but also the global average rise in sea temperatures limits CO2 absorption by sea water. That's basic physics.

 

-Long established and reliable weather patterns for rainfall etc... are becoming unreliable and chaotic, leading to 'desertification' effects around the Mediterranean etc, Major floods in numerous places, stronger and more frequent storms the World over, crop failures, the import of 'exotic' plant and animal diseases to previously 'clean' areas is causing whole livelihoods to disappear etc. 

The Polar Ice Caps are melting at previously unimaginable rates, Glaciers are disappearing in the World's mountain ranges, sea levels are rising and some vulnerable areas such as low lying Pacific Islands and many areas around big river deltas, plus the whole of Bangladesh... are in danger of inundation.  Wildfires the world over have caused death and destruction on an unprecedented scale...even in 'leafy' England.  Tropical marine and land species are moving north and south, away from the equator. Artic/Antarctic species are being displaced, or are dying, as the ice on which they evolved to live, disappears.

And it's not just animals.. Humans from some of the worst affected areas are also being forced to migrate to survive.. That will go down well with some...

 

On 2. There's no doubt that our climate has gone through 'cycles' in the past. It also goes through relatively minor cycles now, such as 'El Nino/El Nina and another 11 year cycle which seems to correllate with an 11 year cycle of Solar Activity. However, those short cycles have relatively minor effects.

As for the bigger cycles, which would include both 'Ice Ages' and  Warming Periods.. it is very dangerous to write our present issues off as 'just another cycle'.

Firstly, those 'historic' cycles took thousands or millions of years to occur.  Our clear Global Warming has occurred in a little over a hundred years and is undeniably correllated with the Industrial Revolution and our ever increasing burning of fossil fuels etc. It is also accellerating.

 

Also, it is worth considering the nature of modern 'civilisation'  Despite wars and political upheavals, our World is now an intimately connected place. It doesn't take much to disrupt the delicate balance of economic interdependencies which characterise the modern World. So, for e.g., Covid, had huge effects on Global trade and supply chains and even a relatively small war in Ukraine is impacting food supplies for many dependent people thousands of miles away from the fighting.

So, what I'm saying is that our crowded planet will be far more seriously affected by major climate effects, than was the case in the past, when such humans as existed were thought to be mostly nomadic hunter/gatherers, who could simply follow the animal herds.. move south away from the ice, and north again as it retreated etc, over thousands of years. We no longer have that option.

 

On 3. There's no doubt that 'Electrification' of transport, throws up a lot of issues.. some of which you correctly identify, though whether it's a 'straight fight', in environmental/pollution terms, between Electric and Petrol/Diesel, is yet to be determined in my view.

However.. there's a bigger issue here...  All of this debate is based upon the assumption, that every 'man jack' on the planet has a right to own and operate his/her own private vehicle. That's a huge issue, which is related not just to economics and the climate, but is hugely political. I could see that becoming as damaging, and as deeply entrenched, as Gun Ownership in the USA, but on a more World wide basis.

 

I think we have a lot to do.. and not much time to do it.

[loppylugs 8,429]

Thanks for the reply.

This debate has been going on for years and,neither, you nor I can add much to it or do anything about it.  My personal opinion is that electric cars are no solution and I don't want one.  It would seem that the WEF (For whom I had no vote) will shortly solve the problem for us.  "You will have nothing and you will be happy."  Welcome to your 15 minute city and brave new world.  Glad I'm gerrin' owd!

On that happy note I will post no further on this topic.

[letsavagoo 963]

DJ. I rarely agree with you on many things but your post above was interesting. I see that the far right QUOTE

‘As usual, most of the 'deniers' are from the far Right of the political spectrum and are either working on behalf of 'vested interests' around Car manufacture, Oil/Gas Coal production etc or are just nuts’ gets a mention, no surprise there but I believe your final comment was valid and the similarity to the right to bare arms in America struck a chord. I would fight tooth and nail to keep my car but there may come a point when you have to ask yourself do we really need one or rather do we need to use one so much as we do. I live in a village with a bus only 3 days a week so couldn’t manage without one unless there was a vast improvement in public transport.
1940’s to the 1960’s car ownership was a fraction of current levels and generally we managed pretty well with good competitive local shops and services. However society has become welded to private car use, the supermarkets, out of town shopping area’s etc and the fact we are just used to nipping here or there. 
I don’t see electric vehicles as a satisfactory solution currently. I’m changing my car this year and looked long and hard at an electric but I don’t believe the infrastructure is ready and unlikely to be so for some time. Obviously they need charging which ultimately comes from fossil fuels with solar and wind still relatively minor players. The batteries require many rare earth elements to manufacture and the mining of these materials is difficult with children exploited and involved in the process and huge amounts of energy used in getting at them and complex processes to extract and refine them polluting. So no one should feel too smug in their e vehicle. China and India are still building coal fired power stations and assuming that global warming is wholly or in part a man made problem the only solution will have to be a global one. Can you see that happening. Telling China and India to slow down and other rising 3rd world countries.

[Brew 5,421]

5 hours ago, DJ360 said:

That Climate Change is 'cyclical'.. and by implication.. 'normal'.

 

And so it is! The so called ice ages are known to have approx. 100,000 yr cycles and we are 20,000 years away from the last one.

Looking at the rate the earth is getting warmer, and still 30,000ys to go before it naturally starts cooling down, we may have a bit of a problem...

[Beekay 5,153]

Batteries don't last very long in reality. If everybody drove an EV, how and where do you dispose of depleted batteries?

And it does'nt bear thinking about re the queues for charging on motorway service areas.

[plantfit 7,601]

Going to have to build more power stations to cope with the extra demand on the grid, (coal or gas fired power stations would be my best choice)

 

Rog